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Important new TSB for CVTs

99K views 203 replies 62 participants last post by  hootowls  
#1 ·
Honda issue a technical service bulletin on August 3 for most 2015/2016 Accords and CRVs equipped with the CVT (most Accords, all CRVs). Evidently a software issue can cause the CVT's drive belt to slip at steady speeds which in turn can lead to accelerated wear and early failure. Drivers can observe this happening if the engine speed on the tachometer surges or varies when the driven at a constant speed on a level road.

As I understand it, owners should receive a letter from Honda outlining the issue. When an affected car is brought to the dealer, the dealer will look for a specific trouble stored trouble code. If the trouble code is found, the transmission will be replaced. If no code is found the software will be updated.

This seems like a serious issue. A couple reasonable questions for Honda could be:

1) If no trouble code is found, how can I be sure some lesser amount of slippage and damage hasn't occurred that will result in trouble outside the warranty period?

2) With all the formal testing Honda does, all the informal testing that goes on when Honda engineers drive their personal cars (presumably Hondas) and with all the customer questions that have likely centered around rpm surges, how could it possibly take nearly two years of on-the-road experience for this issue to be identified and resolved?

For this and another reason (extreme fuel dilution of engine oil the dealer can't/won't resolve) I'm rapidly losing faith in my CRV and Honda in general. But that's another story. Point is, if you have a 2015/16 CRV and get a letter from Honda, pay attention to it. If you don't get a letter, call your dealer or Honda to see if your vehicle is affected.

Finally, as this is not a safety issue, this is not a "recall". So don't refer to it as such with your dealer and don't check you vehicle's VIN for open recalls on Honda's website.
 
#2 ·
Please post the actual TSB which will provide more details.
Thanks
 
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#3 ·
We civilians don't have access to the actual TSBs, so you'll have to make do with my summary and whatever comes from Honda. Fwiw, I did call Honda of America and they 1) confirmed there was such a TSB and 2) my car is included.
 
#4 ·
TSB do get posted. What's the number?
 
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#5 · (Edited)
I called Honda. TSB #16-053, CVT Software Update.. I called the Honda dealer. They confirmed. The service tech at the dealer said all the ones he's done so far are software updates, no transmission replacements yet. But I guess it's early yet, too.
 
#6 ·
Good job. It's not at NHTSA site yet. Soon.
 
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#7 · (Edited)
I've already made an appointment with the dealer. They told me I didn't even need the letter from Honda which I haven't gotten yet, but I did tell them that I called Honda of America and gave them my VIN. Soonest they can get me in is August 15. My luck, I'll be the first and only one they come across with the TSB who will need a new transmission, not just a software update.
 
#9 ·
This could explain the issue I was having in the spring. Driving on the highway the rpm would jump 1500 rpm then settle back down. Did it 2 or 3 times for only a few km/miles then hasn't done it again. Of coarse dealer couldn't find anything, maybe now that they know what to look for. I'm really starting to think I will be walking away from this car when the lease is up. No faith or trust in Honda any more.
 
#15 ·
You don't pay for repairs related to TSBs. Just had TSB15-046 (vibration mode 2 & 3 but they actually addressed mode 1 & 3 solving our driving vibrations) completed at our dealership last week. Dealer provided a loaner as they said it was the first they had done and it took them about 3 days to get the parts in and figure out the software update. Will be interesting to call them this week and see about their knowledge of this one. Thanks for the info and this is why forums like this are so important.
 
#117 ·
Wow - lots of misinformation here... Let's see if I can help clean this up.

You don't pay for repairs related to TSBs.
That's true as long as the vehicle is still covered under the factory warranty, otherwise you must pay to have TSB-related repairs done unless the repairs are required as part of a recall.

Honda doesn't normally send out letters for product updates.
Normally, no. However, Honda did send out TSBs to 2016 Civic Touring owners several months ago for an amplifier software update to address an intermittent loss of sound. This was not required as part of a recall, yet owners were notified to bring their vehicles in for a free software update that did not specify time or mileage limits.

A guy I work with claims that if there was to be an error code, my check engine light would come on (even for the transmission). Is this true?
No, not necessarily. Part of the changes associated with ODB II in the 90s was that the CEL (Check Engine Light) or MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light/Lamp) is only required to come on for problems that may result in an increase in the vehicle's emissions above a certain threshold. Problems that are not emissions-related typically do not illuminate the MIL.

A transmission code that doesn't affect emissions won't normally illuminate the MIL, but will often cause the "D" indicator to flash in Hondas.

Yes, if the light is not on, there should not be a code.
That's not true. See above. There are lots of codes that can be present that won't cause a warning light or message.

Basically, just because a warning light isn't on or a message doesn't appear doesn't mean there are no pending, current, or history codes stored in memory. Different codes have different behaviors.
 
#16 ·
I have an appointment for this tomorrow morning. I checked for codes with my own scan tool and didn't see any, so hopefully just a software flash and I'm on my way.

Sent from my note 4 using Tapatalk.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I have an appointment for this tomorrow morning. I checked for codes with my own scan tool and didn't see any, so hopefully just a software flash and I'm on my way.
Let us know how you make out. Have you experienced any of the RPM surges? Even if not, I'm wondering if the CVT will act any different other than stopping the surges. I've read posts in other forums for other vehicles where people said that it was like driving a different car after the CVT software update, with claims of better gas mileage. Maybe they were simply referring to the stoppage of surges, and nothing else; I'm not certain.
 
#28 ·
Left my car at the dealer last night with an assurance the tsb would be done first thing this morning. Arrived at the dealer this morning and of course they hadn't even touched it. After expressing my displeasure they said they would do it right away and it would only take 10 minutes. So somehow we went from a couple hours to ten minutes.

Sent from my note 4 using Tapatalk.
 
#31 ·
Left my car at the dealer last night with an assurance the tsb would be done first thing this morning. Arrived at the dealer this morning and of course they hadn't even touched it. After expressing my displeasure they said they would do it right away and it would only take 10 minutes. So somehow we went from a couple hours to ten minutes.
Par for the course.

Got the car back after 10-15 mins. They said they did the update. Hopefully they actually did it and didn't just pretend to so I would shut up.
Chances are they did do it. Let us know about your driving experience, if there is any change.
 
#29 ·
Got the car back after 10-15 mins. They said they did the update. Hopefully they actually did it and didn't just pretend to so I would shut up.

Sent from my note 4 using Tapatalk.
 
#30 ·
I called Honda USA, gave them my VIN (2016 CRV Touring; April 2016 build, according to the sticker), and was told that my car was not the subject to any campaigns (or recalls, but this isn't one). The person I spoke with didn't want the TSB number. I called two local dealers: the first (where I bought the car) wouldn't take my VIN and told me to just bring it in; the second checked the VIN (nothing showed up), but kept insisting that TSBs are not VIN-specific and also told me to bring in the car.

I'm going to wait a couple of weeks to see if I get a letter, and if I don't, call the dealers later, when hopefully they are more aware of the issue.
 
#33 ·
From what you say, it sounds like both dealers are aware of the issue. After all, both said to bring in your car. For what it's worth, I didn't get a letter yet, but I asked the dealer if I really need it. He said all I had to bring in was me and my key. So I'm going this coming Saturday 8/13 without a letter.
 
#36 ·
Well, the TSB letter on the Ascord site says all CRV and 4cylinder Accords.

Honda's recall site says my CRV has no pending recalls.

My guess, the Honda site isn't fully up to date.
 
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#37 · (Edited)
Well, the TSB letter on the Ascord site says all CRV and 4cylinder Accords.

Honda's recall site says my CRV has no pending recalls.

My guess, the Honda site isn't fully up to date.
I'm not sure if the recall site would show this. It's not a recall. Now if they show recalls and TSB's, that's a different story. But I'm willing to bet that a recall site would only show recalls. What Accord site did you find the TSB on? Was it the forum site I posted in one of my previous posts?
 
#39 ·
Well, I had my first surge this morning. I was coasting at about 40 MPH, foot off the gas pedal, RPM was about 1500, I think. All of a sudden, the engine revved up to over 3000 for a couple seconds. I sincerely hope that when I take my vehicle in on Saturday, that they don't find an error code, and simply need to install the software update instead of a new transmission.
 
#48 ·
I had my second surge this morning. This one was scary. I was coasting down a steep road at about 40 MPH, foot off the gas pedal, I'm not sure what the RPM was. Then I heard the engine rev up. I looked at the tach, and it was about 3500 RPM. What was scary was it stayed that way for about 6-7 seconds. I was starting to think that it was never going to let go. What was also scary was that it happened on a hill. I had previously read that it would happen on a flat level road. That's where my previous surge happened.

Just so I'm not ignorant, does the transmission tend to downshift on its own when going down a hill? Even if it does, would the engine rev up to 3500? I'm under the impression that going down a hill would make the transmission UPshift, not DOWNshift, and that you would have to manually make the engine downshift by taking it out of D and shifting into L. But I've never owned a vehicle with a CVT, so I really don't know for sure.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Honda doesn't normally send out letters for product updates.
My understanding is that Honda is sending a letter for this one. I heard or read that somewhere. The letter that Rocky is referring to is, I believe, the actual TSB that the dealer gets. But I think Honda is sending a letter to owners. But again, that's just something I heard or read.
 
#44 ·
I am going to ask my dealer Monday....I have an oil change scheduled (they gave me first two free, only reason why I am not doing it), so I can see what they say...I personally haven't noticed any surging issues.
 
#45 ·
I got to my dealer this morning at 9:05 AM. They had to do paperwork as I was a new customer and the car sat about 10 minutes after it was finished. I was out the door at 9:50 AM. I can't tell any difference in the way it runs.
 
#47 ·
Bummer there isnt a site with everything listed... There is one for jeep (I check all the time since my Jeep is a total piece of ....excrement...)
With Jeep they never told owners about them, it was only if the owner complained about something that applied to that TSB. So I would look them up and go complain about it to get it fixed lol. 40 dealer visits later and the jeep (14 grand cherokee) is still junk...
 
#57 ·
I can relate! My 2015 CRV Touring was rear ended a couple weeks ago, by a woman who was texting while driving. While she's at the auto body repaired, they gave me a 2016 Jeep Cherokee limited as a loaner. The seats are very comfortable, and the head unit is great(although no android auto), but that's about where the good ends. :) The transmission has very odd shifting patterns and sometimes downshifts to what seems like first. The brake pedal is sometimes soft sometimes hard, and feels very odd. The vehicle handles like a cinderblock or bathtub, very heavy and slow. Only 20mpg, too. I miss my CRV! :)

I'll ask my dealer about this TSB when shes next in for an oil change, in about 5000 more miles.
 
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#49 ·
The TSB says the dealer needs to check for an error code. If one is present, then the transmission needs to be replaced. If one is not present, then do the software update. My main concern of course is that there will be an error code. A guy I work with claims that if there was to be an error code, my check engine light would come on (even for the transmission). Is this true? (My check engine light is NOT lit.)
 
#55 ·
I had my 2015 Touring in the dealership for some warranty work and had them look at this. Mine just needed a software update and I'm even sure if my vehicle was having any issues.
 
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