looking into doing an oil change soon and was debating which I should choose...synthetic oil or regular oil?? anybody got opinions about this??? 
Psyman42
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That would be an extended warranty.
more money spent
My experience with Amsoil began with using not only the motor oil, but also the gear lube in front and rear diffs, and in a manual tranny in a Toyota Tacoma. The Tacoma shifted very hard in cold weather in the north country, and you could hardly make it move in first due to the stiffness of the fluids in the tranny and differentials. Changing to synthetic for all lubes made an unbelievable difference in shifting and getting the truck rolling in cold weather. It also improved my mileage by 10-20%.
That made me a believer and I can't help but think there is a whole lot less wear when fluids flow right away, especially in extreme cold. For those reasons, I have even less need to spend money on an extended warranty.
I guess then, paying for the extended warranty, and being stuck with following Honda's requirements to honor that warranty if needed, is much like spending extra for Amsoil oil and filters, and not following Honda's requirements (since the standard 3/36 is done so soon). You've spent extra money either way for something you don't likely need.
My experience with Amsoil began with using not only the motor oil, but also the gear lube in front and rear diffs, and in a manual tranny in a Toyota Tacoma. The Tacoma shifted very hard in cold weather in the north country, and you could hardly make it move in first due to the stiffness of the fluids in the tranny and differentials. Changing to synthetic for all lubes made an unbelievable difference in shifting and getting the truck rolling in cold weather. It also improved my mileage by 10-20%.
That made me a believer and I can't help but think there is a whole lot less wear when fluids flow right away, especially in extreme cold. For those reasons, I have even less need to spend money on an extended warranty.
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Spending Money
The great thing about money is that my extended warranty didn't cost you a dime and your Amsoil costs me nothing. As to the wisdom of buying an extended warranty, I doubt that there is any. Most likely it will be a waste of money... ah but my money. I do not buy extended warranties on anything other than automobiles. I wrestle with it everytime I do it, but I notice that once I commit to buying it, I never think about it again. But obviously I do not want to invalidate it by not following the service procedures.
You have had very good experience with Amsoil, and you find that it gives you peace of mind. I never heard of the stuff until I joined this forum. You will spend a lot less for your Amsoil than I will spend on the warranty. In both cases it probably is a waste of money. But you have spent far less money and time under your oil pan. So I congratulate you on choosing wisely.
As I said before, I never heard Amsoil until joining this forum. We have winters in Pittsburgh, but I can't say that the cold here has me concerned about the performance of regular motor oil. I am sure though that Amsoil is an excellent choice of lubricant.
As poor of a choice as an extended warranty is, (and it most certainly is, I recommend it to no one--I only do it for peace of mind, and mostly because I am a good bit simple minded--but I digress) I will say this: the use of Amsoil will do nothing for the life of the CPU, air conditioning, brakes, power steering, suspension, fuel system, cd player, electrical system, or non lubricant issues involving the engine, transmission, or rear differential. The warranty does cover these things in varying detail, but most likely I will never use it, but it is peace of mind. It is doing something positive when confronted with mind numbing amount of clap trap on a modern vehicle that can go bad. It cost me 1.1 cent per additional mile covered. Good deal? Not hardly. Should everyone do it? Absolutely not! But it is peace of mind for the feeble minded.
Again my only comments regarding Amsoil is look for the API seal, and if you are concerned with your warranty, abide by Honda's required intervals and not Amsoil's.
The great thing about money is that my extended warranty didn't cost you a dime and your Amsoil costs me nothing. As to the wisdom of buying an extended warranty, I doubt that there is any. Most likely it will be a waste of money... ah but my money. I do not buy extended warranties on anything other than automobiles. I wrestle with it everytime I do it, but I notice that once I commit to buying it, I never think about it again. But obviously I do not want to invalidate it by not following the service procedures.
You have had very good experience with Amsoil, and you find that it gives you peace of mind. I never heard of the stuff until I joined this forum. You will spend a lot less for your Amsoil than I will spend on the warranty. In both cases it probably is a waste of money. But you have spent far less money and time under your oil pan. So I congratulate you on choosing wisely.
As I said before, I never heard Amsoil until joining this forum. We have winters in Pittsburgh, but I can't say that the cold here has me concerned about the performance of regular motor oil. I am sure though that Amsoil is an excellent choice of lubricant.
As poor of a choice as an extended warranty is, (and it most certainly is, I recommend it to no one--I only do it for peace of mind, and mostly because I am a good bit simple minded--but I digress) I will say this: the use of Amsoil will do nothing for the life of the CPU, air conditioning, brakes, power steering, suspension, fuel system, cd player, electrical system, or non lubricant issues involving the engine, transmission, or rear differential. The warranty does cover these things in varying detail, but most likely I will never use it, but it is peace of mind. It is doing something positive when confronted with mind numbing amount of clap trap on a modern vehicle that can go bad. It cost me 1.1 cent per additional mile covered. Good deal? Not hardly. Should everyone do it? Absolutely not! But it is peace of mind for the feeble minded.
Again my only comments regarding Amsoil is look for the API seal, and if you are concerned with your warranty, abide by Honda's required intervals and not Amsoil's.
Mobil 1 makes great synthetic gear lube, etc. and no marketing crapola. I have used Mobil 1 syn products for over 25 years in all kinds of vehicles.
Beware to newbies - DO NOT TRY to put anything but Honda Dual pump Fluid in your CR-V rear differential! It does not take gear lube. It is a hydraulic fluid.
ps - I have long wondered if CAT hydraulic fluid is acceptable in the rear diff. It is designed for high extremes of heat and cold, etc. If I ever come across a salvage yard special rear diff for $100 or so, I will try it. My guess is that it would be perfectly acceptable and a whole cheaper.
Here's a great CAT article on hydraulic systems. It may help one understand WHY fluid changes are needed periodically.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/securedFile/displaySecuredFileServletJSP?fileId=137007&languageId=7
It is BIG, let it download...
I agree, Mobil1 is good synthetic, and I'd use it if I didn't use Amsoil.
Stopped short of adding synthetic in the differentials, since I didn't know exactly what double pump was. Guess I'll stick with the Honda stuff there.
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Amsoil
I am not sure I want to get into this but I Googled Amsoil. As I said in an earlier post, I never heard of it until I joined this forum.
If I use my usual BS detectors, I would have to say that something is odd about Amsoil. There are thousands of sites devoted to the glories of Amsoil, for everything from chain saws to jet engines. There is one lady even selling techniques to better sell Amsoil. You open another site and the first thing you find is a page and half devoted to the credentials of some guy proving that he is certified public lubricating engineer, then he starts singing grand arias to the wonders of Amsoil. There was another site claiming that Mobil 1 is still playing catch up to Amsoil. (Excuse my ignorance here, but I believe that if Mobil 1 was seriously worried about Amsoil, Exxon/Mobil would simply buy the company.)
There is a certain religious fervor to it that would make me run from a religion let alone something as mundane as oil. Judging from the passion that I have read about it in this forum, I should imagine that it is a good product.
However, why can't I buy it at my local autoparts store? There is a site that explaines why. My BS detector states: stay away from this stuff. If for no other reason than, I simply want to buy some oil. I don't want to become part of an exciting multi-million dollar retail organization extending the life of millions of engines, improving world peace, solving world hunger through longer tractor oil changes, improving the environment...
Good products usually don't need this level of fervor to successfully make it in the market. Something is odd.
I am not sure I want to get into this but I Googled Amsoil. As I said in an earlier post, I never heard of it until I joined this forum.
If I use my usual BS detectors, I would have to say that something is odd about Amsoil. There are thousands of sites devoted to the glories of Amsoil, for everything from chain saws to jet engines. There is one lady even selling techniques to better sell Amsoil. You open another site and the first thing you find is a page and half devoted to the credentials of some guy proving that he is certified public lubricating engineer, then he starts singing grand arias to the wonders of Amsoil. There was another site claiming that Mobil 1 is still playing catch up to Amsoil. (Excuse my ignorance here, but I believe that if Mobil 1 was seriously worried about Amsoil, Exxon/Mobil would simply buy the company.)
There is a certain religious fervor to it that would make me run from a religion let alone something as mundane as oil. Judging from the passion that I have read about it in this forum, I should imagine that it is a good product.
However, why can't I buy it at my local autoparts store? There is a site that explaines why. My BS detector states: stay away from this stuff. If for no other reason than, I simply want to buy some oil. I don't want to become part of an exciting multi-million dollar retail organization extending the life of millions of engines, improving world peace, solving world hunger through longer tractor oil changes, improving the environment...
Good products usually don't need this level of fervor to successfully make it in the market. Something is odd.
Black Pearl...
Amsoil is sold exclusively via a multi-level marketing program, ala Amway, Avon, Mary Kay Cosmetics, etc. The people who tout the products the loudest and most fervently are always the ones making the money off of the product.
It is VERY difficult to find REAL, INDEPENDENT lab tests of Amsoil. You will find Amsoil supported tests proclaiming it to be the savior of oil.
Around my area, many farmers use the product, however, they are sellers - to themselves. When they buy oil and hydraulic fluids by the drum, at wholesale, they save a bundle of money over what they would have to pay for other products.
Amsoil is sold exclusively via a multi-level marketing program, ala Amway, Avon, Mary Kay Cosmetics, etc. The people who tout the products the loudest and most fervently are always the ones making the money off of the product.
It is VERY difficult to find REAL, INDEPENDENT lab tests of Amsoil. You will find Amsoil supported tests proclaiming it to be the savior of oil.
Around my area, many farmers use the product, however, they are sellers - to themselves. When they buy oil and hydraulic fluids by the drum, at wholesale, they save a bundle of money over what they would have to pay for other products.
Amsoil
I bought a '97 with 100K miles on it, and right away switched to synthetic oil since I need it to last a long time. A friend recommended Amsoil so I bought some from their web site. I had no experience with the religious fervor or cult like behavior that everyone mentions, or I would probably have run screaming too. Incidentally, I met a local dealer one day who actually recommended that I just buy through the web site. I change the oil and filter every six months, and driving 15K per year I have found the cost to be comparable to regular oil while spending far less time on oil changes.
I also noticed that my mileage is higher than my dad's '97 (both have 140K miles). My mileage averages 26-28 and his averages 22-24. Maybe that is the difference in synthetic oil.
I bought a '97 with 100K miles on it, and right away switched to synthetic oil since I need it to last a long time. A friend recommended Amsoil so I bought some from their web site. I had no experience with the religious fervor or cult like behavior that everyone mentions, or I would probably have run screaming too. Incidentally, I met a local dealer one day who actually recommended that I just buy through the web site. I change the oil and filter every six months, and driving 15K per year I have found the cost to be comparable to regular oil while spending far less time on oil changes.
I also noticed that my mileage is higher than my dad's '97 (both have 140K miles). My mileage averages 26-28 and his averages 22-24. Maybe that is the difference in synthetic oil.
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Improvement in Mileage
An improvement in mileage would justify the extra cost of synthetic (I have an extended warranty to protect so I can't use a longer period). My comments on Amsoil is purely based on the amount of propaganda that I Googled. So you didn't have unexplained loss of periods of time or odd scars on your body after buying it? You don't feel compelled to turn over 50% of your income to Amsoil, and enlist your neighbors and friends to the cause? It is just oil?
An improvement in mileage would justify the extra cost of synthetic (I have an extended warranty to protect so I can't use a longer period). My comments on Amsoil is purely based on the amount of propaganda that I Googled. So you didn't have unexplained loss of periods of time or odd scars on your body after buying it? You don't feel compelled to turn over 50% of your income to Amsoil, and enlist your neighbors and friends to the cause? It is just oil?
not a seller
I ignore the marketing, but do pay attention to what independent mechanics have to say, and, the improved mileage and shifting on my Tacoma is enough for me.
I don't sell it, but I do pay for the "preferred customer" membership to get the stuff at wholesale. With extended drain intervals, I pay about the same as I would for Honda oil and filters.
I ignore the marketing, but do pay attention to what independent mechanics have to say, and, the improved mileage and shifting on my Tacoma is enough for me.
Math Lesson.
Time to play the numbers.
IF one normally gets 24 mpg and gets .5 of 1 mpg as an increase by switching to synthetic oil and gas costs $3 per gallon, and the owner follows the manual and changes oil every 10,000 miles with either oil, will there be any payback?
Dino oil and 24 mpg = $1250 for fuel every 10,000 miles or $.125 per mile
Syn oil and 24.5 mpg = $1224 for fuel every 10,000 miles or $.1224 per mile
One would save $26 in fuel costs every 10,000 miles. Dino oil costs around $2.50 per quart and syn about $5. You need 4.4 quarts in your V to change oil (unless you are using the bigger S2000 filter). We will assume buying 5 quarts for this.
Dino oil - $12.50 per change
Syn oil - $25.00 per change
Your $26 in fuel savings minus the extra cost of the oil ($12.50) gives you a possible savings of $13.50 every 10,000 miles. However, if you are buying the $10+ syn oil filter... you eat up most of that savings.
If gas prices drop, you save less and if they rise, you save a little more.
Time to play the numbers.
IF one normally gets 24 mpg and gets .5 of 1 mpg as an increase by switching to synthetic oil and gas costs $3 per gallon, and the owner follows the manual and changes oil every 10,000 miles with either oil, will there be any payback?
Dino oil and 24 mpg = $1250 for fuel every 10,000 miles or $.125 per mile
Syn oil and 24.5 mpg = $1224 for fuel every 10,000 miles or $.1224 per mile
One would save $26 in fuel costs every 10,000 miles. Dino oil costs around $2.50 per quart and syn about $5. You need 4.4 quarts in your V to change oil (unless you are using the bigger S2000 filter). We will assume buying 5 quarts for this.
Dino oil - $12.50 per change
Syn oil - $25.00 per change
Your $26 in fuel savings minus the extra cost of the oil ($12.50) gives you a possible savings of $13.50 every 10,000 miles. However, if you are buying the $10+ syn oil filter... you eat up most of that savings.
If gas prices drop, you save less and if they rise, you save a little more.
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Mileage Improvement
Your math is based on 1/2 mpg. Our friend from TN reports getting 4 mpg better than Dad, which I doubt can be purely attributed to syn oil. Is there some recognized average improvement, based on independent science rather than marketing hype? My BS detectors are covered in sludge from yesterday's excursion into Amsoil. I don't have the resolve to google synthetic oil mpg improvement.
Your math is based on 1/2 mpg. Our friend from TN reports getting 4 mpg better than Dad, which I doubt can be purely attributed to syn oil. Is there some recognized average improvement, based on independent science rather than marketing hype? My BS detectors are covered in sludge from yesterday's excursion into Amsoil. I don't have the resolve to google synthetic oil mpg improvement.
I have used syn oil in many vehicles since 1984 when I bought a new Pontiac Fiero (easy now, it was actually a great car) and switched to Mobil 1 at 10k miles.
I am a fervent mpg watcher (good indicator of upcoming problems) and always get about .5 to nearly 1 additional mpg when I switch.
An additional 4 mpg is more than a suspect number.
I do not bother with syn in my 2 V's because I use them as commuter cars and expect to replace them at any given time. I do not expect any engine issues within the time frame I normally keep one of the commuter vehicles and spending extra for maintaining the engine for the next guy doesn't interest me. That being said, it looks like I will be keeping the 99 for my 16 year old son and buying either an 08 V or an 09 diesel V and keeping the 04. I can't see getting rid of either V since they are still well liked by all of us and in amazing shape.
good grief
1 mpg is close on the Tacoma, although it may be better than that in the winter in ND, not because of the oil in the crank case, but because of the "Much more fluid in cold temps" gear lube in the manually tranny and differentials. I haven't compared as I don't want to go back to the "difficult shifting hard to get rolling" vehicle I had before changing to syn.
Won't try it all the way around on the Honda due to the double pump fluid requirement
As is, the anti-amsoil arguments are about equal to the amsoil marketing.
1 mpg is close on the Tacoma, although it may be better than that in the winter in ND, not because of the oil in the crank case, but because of the "Much more fluid in cold temps" gear lube in the manually tranny and differentials. I haven't compared as I don't want to go back to the "difficult shifting hard to get rolling" vehicle I had before changing to syn.
Won't try it all the way around on the Honda due to the double pump fluid requirement
As is, the anti-amsoil arguments are about equal to the amsoil marketing.
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North Dakota!
Whoa! North Dakota! Well that explains your concerns for cold weather performance, and you guys get racked pretty good with the heat.
As for the anti-amsoil rhetoric, you have cut me to the quick. But, yes, I did get unduly flamboyant. As such, I promise the “A” word will never escape my keyboard again, and as a penance I am going to become a Mary Kay Cosmetics dealer. May I interest you in some moisturizing blush for those cold winter winds?
You certainly have had good performance from it & with the weather in North Dakota, if it works there, it must be good. Thanks for the information.
Whoa! North Dakota! Well that explains your concerns for cold weather performance, and you guys get racked pretty good with the heat.
As for the anti-amsoil rhetoric, you have cut me to the quick. But, yes, I did get unduly flamboyant. As such, I promise the “A” word will never escape my keyboard again, and as a penance I am going to become a Mary Kay Cosmetics dealer. May I interest you in some moisturizing blush for those cold winter winds?
You certainly have had good performance from it & with the weather in North Dakota, if it works there, it must be good. Thanks for the information.
Think you might get a pink Honda?
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I could get 24.5 mpg highway out of the Bravada, with all drive line fluids changed to synthetic. I believe the EPA was 22. With my V8 Dakota I was at 21.5 highway on a EPA rating of 19. That was until the heads, cam, torque converter, computer, larger throttle body, etc.
Cold weather starts were a breeze with no lifter clatter. When it gets down to 0* or below the engine spins right over, plus the superior high temp protection was worth it to me.
Then there is the Green view, you are not using a natural resource.
Cold weather starts were a breeze with no lifter clatter. When it gets down to 0* or below the engine spins right over, plus the superior high temp protection was worth it to me.
Then there is the Green view, you are not using a natural resource.
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