[Brightnight]

The only MM codes I have seen so far are for oil changes. I've been surpirsed that I haven't seen other MM Sub Items. My car has 105k miles and I've never seen a code for any of the following:

Rotate tires 2 ● Replace air cleaner element*2 ● Replace dust and pollen filter*3 ● Inspect drive belt 3 ● Replace transmission fluid*4 4 ● Replace spark plugs ● Inspect valve clearance 5 ● Replace engine coolant 6 ● Replace rear differential fluid 7 ● Replace brake fluid*5 9 ● Inspect front and rear brakes ● Inspect these items: • Tie rod ends, steering gearbox, and boots • Suspension components • Driveshaft boots • Brake hoses and lines (including ABS/VSA®) • All fluid levels and condition of fluids • Exhaust system# • Fuel lines and connections#

 

[Brightnight]

Bought used in 2019 with 44k miles on it, it has AWD and as I mentioned I've only ever seen MM for oil changes which was suprising to me

 

[Brightnight]

This weekend I changed the spark plugs, oil, tramission fluid, differential, brake fluid. Everything looked fine. I will need a week or so to see if the problem persists but will post results. Here is a pic of my 105k spark plugs. Still need to get fuel injector cleaner and will try that ASAP. Drove 150 highway miles after changing all the fluids and was getting 41.5MPG so seems like it's at least riding well. Despite 105k miles, I was suprised that the brake pads and rotors are still smooth and have never been changed on the car and pads still have a .25" left so going to leave them until the fall.

 

[Brightnight]

Since replacing these items 4 days ago I haven't seen the same issue when starting my car. I did notice last night driving home when in bumper to bumper traffic there was one instance when the car was in low RPM, probably idling, and I took my foot off the break before applying power and the car shuddled for a second and then stopped. I will continue to monitor my car and post back here either way. I suspect maybe the mornings haven't been cold enough but the issue popping up yesterday makes me think this saga will continue sooner or later. I will also track down some injector cleaner for the next fill too.

Good idea, I will check my battery, that would be an easy test. Wouldn't think it's related since I'd expect the car the have trouble starting, not start immediately and then shudder for a bit but will check.

 

[Brightnight]

Did you clean throttle? Not sure if you mentioned it directly.

No, thanks for the reminder I will try that as well

 

[Brightnight]

Thanks for posting that. I added injector cleaner to my gas, still starting rough, seems to be getting worse. Going to take it to a dealer to get scanned to see if they can diagnose it. Cleaning the throttle body and/or injectors is a little bit to far out of my comfort level at the moment.

UPDATE: Despite not having an dash lights on my friend used his ODB meter to check for codes. He found a cyclinder 3 minfire. I plan to number the coils and move them around so I can see if the misfire moves with the coils. If it does I know I have a coil issue. If it doesn't I'm betting injectors.

 

[Brightnight]

Should've mentioned the cylinder 3 misfire was a pending code.

Update: Cleaned the MA air flow sensor last night, didn't help. Riding home last night there were some very noticable engine bumps, felt like misfires but would expect a dash light to come on with that many misfires, maybe 50 over ten minutes. Driving today and this afternoon was on the highway the "misfires" were pretty significcant. Problem is defintiely getting worse. Labled and swapped the coils around and cleared the pending codes. Drove it on the highway for 10 minutes, didn't feel super rough but drove it pretty soft. Checked for pending codes (misfires) after swapping the coils but there were none after 10 minutes of the highway. Hoping on the drive home tonight I will see the misfire move to the cylinder that I moved coil 3 to, but if it stays with cyclinder 3 it's likely an injector problem. If it is injectors might try the sea foam fix in the throttle body with the engine running to clean the injectors.

 

[Brightnight]

I’m curious too, also don’t want to do anything that would wreck things long term but have seen some “year out” tests from sea foam and looked fine. More research to do. Have a car trip this weekend and can’t get a dealer to scan until Tuesday so will be my last resort otherwise no trip. Really hoping it’s just a bad coil, that would be an easy and cheap fix but don’t think it will be

 

[Brightnight]

What’s confusing to me is that I had at separate times I saw a “misfire in cylinder 3” and later a “bank 1 running rich” pending codes on my ODB2 meter. After clearing any pending codes yesterday I've driven for 45 minutes and haven’t seen any more pending codes but car is still running rough. Since the car is still riding very rough I expected to see some type of pendign code. During normal highway driving, especially noticeable during acceleration, not just on startup so something is definitely wrong and the pending codes don't seem to pick that up.


From what I understand from reading online about misfires and codes (in general), one misfire will cause a pending code, another misfire will cause the fault/dash light to go on. If that’s true then I wonder if the rough riding I feel on the highway are actual misfires or if the car just isn’t detecting them.

 

[Brightnight]

Thanks for the refereance, need to read through that Thread in more detail but dealer said that TSB didn't apply to my vehicle and they hadn't seen many issues with injectors...a few in the last month and those TSB issues are related to the 3.5L engines.

Dealer said a scan would be helpful, could show if the injectors are stuck open. After explaining more symptoms he said it sounded like a valve adjustment would be the first place to look but tech would have to decide if that was the right direction. Also in that thread someone mentions multiple times to their dealer about the TSB and the dealer didn't know so still worth pushing on.

 

[Brightnight]

Honda dealer scanned my car at this morning...said I need new injectors. Ouch, dissapointed with honda. Going to try with corporate to get some if it covered. Last car was a toyota tacoma, never once changed the injectors in 255k miles. Will report back what corporate says and if new injectors actually fix my issue.

 

[Brightnight]

Update: My CRV has a blown head gasket. It's about the same price to replace the engine as the headgasket so unsure what I will be doing. Car starts much worse in colder weather and runs fine when warm so all fall approaches it might force my hand. Have heard mixed thingss about using a head gasket sealer like "blue devil", some say it will only make it worse and others say it can fix it but definitely harder with the increased pressure of the turbo.

Looking at $5000 "real" fix and pretty frustrated because Honda had meant long term reliability to me and I've driven this car so gently and maintaned it perfectly. I had expected this car to make it to 250,000 miles with no issues. I suspect there is an underlying engine design issue.

Had some old oil tested, coolant was in the oil. White smoke from tailpipe when starting. Exaust fumes in coolant too. Yikes, what a mess.

 

[Brightnight]

I called 12 different shops and only one said they would do it, nobody wanted to touch it. Even the shop they could do it told me it's not worth it, might as well get a new engine with less miles because the gasket is hard to change.

 

[Brightnight]

After reading your other post and this one again, something just seems off here. You may want to check for engine damage, mainly the cylinder head.

Didn't this vehicle just get repaired? 🤷‍♂️

It hasn't been repaired, I've been limping around trying to figure out what the actual problem is and now still deciding on a fix.

Not covered by the longer power train warranty? Probably not.

This is the first head gasket I have heard being blown in a 1.5T engine. You might contact Honda Customer Support and open a case file for consideration for them to address it at their cost, or partial cost. No harm in asking.

There are like 10 million of these engines in the field now because Honda has been putting them into Civics, CRVs, and Accords for years, all their large volume models. So field data argues against your claim of a "design issue". Humans are tempted to attribute any unscheduled failure in a consumer product to automatically be a "design issue" when in fact it is often just a random failure. I understand your frustration here, but I would avoid drawing conclusions of "design issue" absent field data to support the conclusion.

These engines have a very reliable track record, so your case is simply a bad luck random failure, unless the engine was stressed somehow beyond design limits (which is almost impossible to do with these modern engines. This is where hindsight would suggest had you purchased a HondaCare policy from one of the Honda dealers that sell them at steep discount (around $1100) would have paid you big dividends in the face of a random failure.

$5000 dollars suggests that the dealer or independent service provider is going to swap out the engine, not repair the head gasket. I have heard that these engines require a clean room factory depot to properly recondition or repair them for some failures, but I have also heard some cases where a dealer does repair the engine at the dealership. I have no idea where a replacement head gasket rests between these two paths, but I imagine pulling the head to replace the gasket might qualify as a clean room repair depot event.

Here's a video on the 1.5L turbo that's worth a watch, obviously I don't have access to a wide set of data from the dealers:

I was thinking that I put more miles on this car than most, ~16k a year so ahead of the curve in seeing problems but if they are in many other cars then that isn't true. I only drive in eco and I get ~32mpg average across 110k miles so I drive it very gently to never stress it. Appreciate the advice and I do plan on asking Honda. I opened a case a while ago when I thought it was the injectors but had to wait until my dash lights lit up and get a diagnosis from the dealer on paper first, then I also had my engine oil tested which took over a month.

New lightly used engine costs ~$3500 + $1500 for install quoted to me by a local shop I trust. Will update with cost to replace headgasket from honda.

 

[Brightnight]

If there is coolant in the oli or oil in the coolant, it's a blown headgasket. White smoke coming out of the tailpipe at any time, too.

Agreed
Just got a quote from Honda for headgasket replacement:

$4372...so for ~$600 more bucks I can get an almost new engine installed. Since my engine overheated and has 110k miles this would be the obivous choice.

 

[Brightnight]

Called Honda today and found out they reviewed my case and will not help with my headgasket issue. No big suprise but hurts to blow a headgasket on engine you expect to last 250k+ miles and it doesn't even last 100k miles. Not sure what if anything I can do to get Honda to help. Have heard elevating the case to someone higher up at Honda can help but haven't figured out how to do that or what that involves.

I chose Steel Seal for a couple of reasons. First, the way it works is a little different that most of the others. I had to dig deep to find out the original research, but the clear liquid contains a polymer resin similar to an epoxy which activates under extreme heat (like cylinder block extreme) and the presence of steam bubbles. It does NOT contain liquid glass (Sodium silicate, which under heat becomes glasslike.

That's exciting to hear, thank you for posting your experience! Can you explain your decision behind why you didn't use liquid glass? I would think a sealant becoming glasslike would be a good thing but I've never used this type of sealant before. Thanks!

r miles replacement motor option but try to bargain with the shop. They will almost always work with you. A few hundred bucks is worth the effort. Also ask what their source is for the motor? Was it tested first or pulled straight out of a

They told me I can pick the motor and have it delivered to the shop or they can pick it and will work with me to find one. Super nice guy running this shop, hard to find a good mechanic but this guy confirmed my headgasket leak without charging me (honda wanted $800), and he suggested trying a headgasket sealer. I do alsmot all my own car work but ocasionally need things done, he won me as a customer for life.

 

[Brightnight]

Aren't they still for a certain time?

I thought it was to 100k. I had oil from 96k and had it tested which showed coolant but wasn't good enough aparently. The way they really "get you" is with maintance records. They will want to see dealer records to show that all maintance occured on time. For many reasons...cost, schedule, etc., obviously this doesn't make sense for most people. I did all my own work on my vehical, on or ahead of schedule, and used only the best oils, etc.

I will follow up with Honda to see why my case was closed without any actions and will report back on how Seal Steel works for me. Hopefully will try it out this weekend.

 

[Brightnight]

If you did in fact do all servicing yourself on time and as scheduled and you have receipts/records and Honda denied you because of this specifically, it might be time to speak with a lawyer. A car manufacturer cannot tell you how/who/where to maintain your vehicle.

I appreciate the advice, you might be right but I'm not one to rush to get lawyers involved and I did things like wait for synthetic oil to go on sale, then I'd buy 5 quarts or whatever and use that for a while, then wait for another sale. I didn't keep a log book of everything, I was assuming (perhaps naively) that because the car tells you when maintenance such as oil changes should occur, the car would also record when that maintenance was performed (or when those messages were reset).

I guess I see proving I did everything right seems like a very hard thing to do and disproving it seems easy even if I had all the logs. More to think about. Will have to read up on this site to see if I can escalate the issue at Honda. I was also just told it was denied but not why which I hope I can find out through Honda.

 

[Brightnight]

Two reasons really, the first was just being lazy.

1. Blue Devil wants you to remove the thermostat in order to flush the cooling system, which makes sense. But I didn't want to do that because our thermostat is a little bit buried. But mostly because I just didn't want to.
2. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that liquid glass sealers break down sooner and when they do they clog things that can cost real money to fix, like the rad and the heater core. I've already flushed out my system of all of the Steel Seal, and it's been a month and about 2500 miles and have had ZERO coolant loss.

Additionally, the past three mornings have been in the upper 30s / low 40s and while it isn't super cold yet, the cold starts have been as smooth as they ever were. I bought an inexpensive borescope from Harbor Freight, so the next plug change I'm going to do a looksee down each cylinder.

Curious if you headgasket fix is still working. I need to figure something out soon, burning more coolant, super rough starts that require me to clear to codes to drive my car...