[TheAl375]

I just don’t understand why after replacing the original spring with one that is 1/8” longer resulted in a chirping sound at 1500ish RPM. I’m sure the chirping sound still exist at higher rpm, but the frequency is so high they are no longer distinct, and it gets covered up by engine/wind noise while driving.

I’ve looked everywhere and only very few people asked about the chirping, one of whom was in this thread (late 2022 post). He attached sound files that mirror my sounds exactly.

Can anyone explain where the sound is from, and whether the only way to avoid this is to not use a longer spring?

 

[Cliff's CRV]

Long ago, I had a 2014 CRV with this problem. Honda replaced the VTC Actuator as warranty replacement. I guessed it would eventually be a problem again. I'm not a mechanic, so after it was fixed, Traded for a new 2018. Problem solved.

 

[riverrockG19]

Did you use the same spring as posted a few posts above yours? Please list numbers or links.

I did not, but I wish in a way that I had. I used the Spring Start kit springs. On the other hand, many times that spring many people use ends up costing almost $20 with shipping, or, you have to order a pack of 25. So in that regard, I'm glad I got the kit from www.spring-start.com

 

[banks99]

So what springs to use? You said the kit didn't work, so???

Amazon.com: Handyman Springs SP 9722 Compression Spring, Spring Steel Construction, Nickel-Plated Finish, 0.028 GA x 7/32 In. x 1-3/8 In. (4 Pack) : Industrial & Scientific

Shop Amazon for Handyman Springs SP 9722 Compression Spring, Spring Steel Construction, Nickel-Plated Finish, 0.028 GA x 7/32 In. x 1-3/8 In. (4 Pack) and find millions of items, delivered faster than ever.

www.amazon.com

This is the one I used and has been used in this thread.

 

[riverrockG19]

Amazon.com: Handyman Springs SP 9722 Compression Spring, Spring Steel Construction, Nickel-Plated Finish, 0.028 GA x 7/32 In. x 1-3/8 In. (4 Pack) : Industrial & Scientific

Shop Amazon for Handyman Springs SP 9722 Compression Spring, Spring Steel Construction, Nickel-Plated Finish, 0.028 GA x 7/32 In. x 1-3/8 In. (4 Pack) and find millions of items, delivered faster than ever.

www.amazon.com

This is the one I used and has been used in this thread.

Did I read that you or someone else had to remove some coils to install this spring? Does this spring still allow oil pressure to overcome it to allow VTC to operate? I remember seeing that one of them was too stiff.

 

[banks99]

Did I read that you or someone else had to remove some coils to install this spring? Does this spring still allow oil pressure to overcome it to allow VTC to operate? I remember seeing that one of them was too stiff.

Yeah had to cut down a few coils to make it the same length as OEM spring. No issues as far as I can tell with lock and unlock of the actuator. It’s stiffer but not impossible to compress.

 

[riverrockG19]

Yeah had to cut down a few coils to make it the same length as OEM spring. No issues as far as I can tell with lock and unlock of the actuator. It’s stiffer but not impossible to compress.

Actually, the Spring Start kit comes with a longer and stiffer version of the replacement for the original, along with a direct replacement version and another one for the updated actuators. That longer one in the kit is probably very close to the one on Amazon. It's noticably longer than the original, as it is before becoming weaker and shorter.

 

[chidog]

And are these springs installed alone by itself and not with the old original spring?

The chirping mentioned above could be from too much spring tension, causing the pin to over ride oil pressure and momentarily catch in the hole.

 

[riverrockG19]

And are these springs installed alone by itself and not with the old original spring?

The chirping mentioned above could be from too much spring tension, causing the pin to over ride oil pressure and momentarily catch in the hole.

All except for one post in this thread, I have only ever read about people using one spring by itself. I have never heard of anyone having a chirp outside of this thread either. To me, the place to start looking for a chirp is in a belt idler pulley or belt tensioner pulley.

 

[banks99]

Actually, the Spring Start kit comes with a longer and stiffer version of the replacement for the original, along with a direct replacement version and another one for the updated actuators. That longer one in the kit is probably very close to the one on Amazon. It's noticably longer than the original, as it is before becoming weaker and shorter.

I have the spring start kit as well, the ones in the kit are not comparable to the ones from Amazon. I’ll take a picture to show the difference when I have a chance.

 

[riverrockG19]

I have the spring start kit as well, the ones in the kit are not comparable to the ones from Amazon. I’ll take a picture to show the difference when I have a chance.

That would be cool. I went ahead and ordered the 4-pack of springs linked in this thread off of Amazon as they were cheap, and it doesn't hurt to have them on hand, because they were unavailable for a long time. I had tried to get them there before.

I believe every spring site that I had looked on listed that spring and they were all an 8 lb / inch rate. Part of my job entails ordering springs for our equipment, so I'm very familiar with the spring vendors out there.

 

[banks99]

Alright, here are the springs from spring start vs Amazon and also a concept of what I’m talking about “spring inside spring” with the OEM spring and Amazon spring because of the smaller diameter - just cut to the same length.

 

[chidog]

So I thought you said just use the amazon spring alone by itself? Or is that just to show the length difference?
Now we need the thread pitch and proper length of the replacement bolts.

 

[banks99]

So I thought you said just use the amazon spring alone by itself? Or is that just to show the length difference?
Now we need the thread pitch and proper length of the replacement bolts.

My experience and previous posts mention that I coiled the new spring inside the old one - makes for an easier install as well.

Replacement bolts - 6mm bolt x 1
pitch x 30mm long

 

[riverrockG19]

My experience and previous posts mention that I coiled the new spring inside the old one - makes for an easier install as well.

Replacement bolts - 6mm bolt x 1.25 pitch x 30mm long

The bolt thread pitch is M6x1x30mm, unless yours is different. Mine and all of the other ones I've ever known of are the M6x1.

 

[riverrockG19]

So, an update on my experience with Liquid Moly MOS2. Over the past couple days I had half of a bottle added to my oil (Castrol GTX full syn. 5w-30). No real change.

Today I added the remaining product to my oil, ran the engine for a few minutes, and removed half a quart since I was overfilled by as much. Started it after 9 hours and 15 minutes - got no rattle. Before, somewhere between the 6 hour and the 8 hour mark I'd get the rattle.

This is the longest that I've gone outside of a few 12+ hour windows with no rattle. Engine is noticeably quieter, but not nearly as noticable as switching to 5w-30 from 0w-20. Will give an update again at the end of this coming week.

 

[downeast]

Although I do not currently own a CR-V, I do own a 2012 Accord LX that uses the same VTC actuator. I had a dealer replace it with the newer version R5A about 4 years/ 49K miles ago, but its failing again with the cold start rattle, along with the following codes that started at the same exact time:
P0341 - Camshaft position sensor incorrect phase
P1009 - Variable valve timing control advance is malfunction

I'm thinking the VTC oil control solenoid might be sticking, and perhaps a bad TDC camshaft position sensor. I'll try a new spring in the actuator, verify it's pin moves freely, and replace its bolts. But I do have a few questions:

Which part should I address first, or just do all three?
Is the cold start rattle and the codes likely all related?
With the actuator, when I open it up, will the pin be engaged and will I be able to slide it out easily to dress it up?

 

[riverrockG19]

downeast, I'd start with getting the spring kit together and the valve cover gasket set first. Next, go to do the job and let's verify your timing chain isn't stretched (it's the pins, not the links). Running low on oil causes it to overheat and makes the pins elongate the chain. 0w20 is the real problem. It's so thin that it burns off and people don't know they are running low on oil level.

Once you've got everything to do the job, and you've got the valve cover off, set your #1 piston to TDC. When you have the white mark on the crank pulley lined up to the arrow on the timing cover, the cam gear notches should be even as they face each other. If not, the chain is stretched.

If chain is good, do the job and replace the oil with 5w30 full synthetic. You very likely may need to be replaced your timing chain tensioner if you still have the rattle as well. The codes you are getting are pointing to a stretched chain though. The codes and the rattle are not really related, but separate issues. Some say they are. I can tell you that the tensioners are common failure points. Very easy to replace.

 

[riverrockG19]

After a week with the LM MoS2, I'm sorry to say, but my rattle got worse not better. It started out looking like an improvement, but now the rattle is longer and louder, and I've had it occur in as little as 2 hours. I'm going to switch to 10w30 very soon.

I'd like to include that my engine has almost 250K miles. Otherwise I'd stay with 5w-30. In working with Spring Start, they tell me that the CR-Vs are the absolute hardest vehicles of all affected with the the VTC rattle to fix.

 

[downeast]

downeast, I'd start with getting the spring kit together and the valve cover gasket set first. Next, go to do the job and let's verify your timing chain isn't stretched (it's the pins, not the links). Running low on oil causes it to overheat and makes the pins elongate the chain. 0w20 is the real problem. It's so thin that it burns off and people don't know they are running low on oil level.

Once you've got everything to do the job, and you've got the valve cover off, set your #1 piston to TDC. When you have the white mark on the crank pulley lined up to the arrow on the timing cover, the cam gear notches should be even as they face each other. If not, the chain is stretched.

If chain is good, do the job and replace the oil with 5w30 full synthetic. You very likely may need to be replaced your timing chain tensioner if you still have the rattle as well. The codes you are getting are pointing to a stretched chain though. The codes and the rattle are not really related, but separate issues. Some say they are. I can tell you that the tensioners are common failure points. Very easy to replace.

Roger that riverrockG19, and thanks for your advice.

I've had it almost since new with 3k miles (it now has 153k), and out of all the cars I've owned, it burned the least oil. In fact, I've never had to add oil between oil changes.

If it turns out the timing is too far off and needs a new chain, I will likely just button it up and hire that out as I don't have a garage. If timing is not too bad I'll continue with your suggestions.

Its an 8th gen i-vtec Accord 2.4L (2008-12). Honda originally specified 5w-20 in 8th gen and switched to 0w-20 in 2011. 5w-30 was specified up to 2000. I found an interesting historic oil chart across Honda models over on driveaccord.net.