Today's THIN oils expand with heat. That is why many automakers recommend checking on a hot engine.

The oil needs some time to drain out of the engine oil passageways. That is why they recommend waiting a few minutes after shutdown to check.

We have found that if you note your oil level as recommended, you can then also note the indicated level at other times (say, after a night's 'rest' on the level of your parking spot). That way you can tell what is 'normal' for you, and rest easy...

 

Today's THIN oils expand with heat.

Bingo.

In fact, if a person in ANY car didnt see a rise, that would be worrying.

And as we know with thermal dynamics, heat rises.

 

Hello Bluecloud.... I am sorry because I don't know much about the car and I may shearing a totally different car issues with You?

I have Honda CRV 2015 and my engine oil one day totally drained empty .... this happened only few months after my car maintenance from the dealer.. at first I was thinking may be a service person forgot to check it and did not fill it up for me?? ...
I had no any oil leaks on my drive way so.... I heard few suggestion that my engine oil is burning fast somehow in a different way.... I did not notice any color smokes from my pipe of my car exhaust....
I had go through text of checking the engine oil lever twice( I had driving around some mileage and back to the dealer for the recording it ) after this text Twice... No result of any problem... I was very upset by this time because My mother passed away and My car warranty is expiring soon and car dealer did not make any promise to fix my problem ... ..by then .... I was just assuming some service person forgot change my engine oil ... simple as that ....
One day... I found out my oil enging was very low so I drove directly to the dealer and Finally they took the matter and fixed my real Problem... then ... I was happy.. under the warranty also....

 

I honestly believe that even with these very thin oils in todays Hondas, the real reason that you see more oil level the next morning compared to the warm check 3 minutes after you park and stop (per Honda recommendation) is because it does actually take longer for the oil to fully drain and settle out in the 1.5T engine than we would commonly think.

Reasons:
1) the engineers, cleverly put micro channels and micro ports in various locations inside the engine (particularly in the head) for oil to pass freely during operation. Honda chief engineer for the 1.5T engine explained that this is done for thermal efficiency reasons in the engine design. There goal being to eliminate ANY hot spots in the engine internals, by improved overall oil distribution as part of the total engine cooling approach.

2) at warm engine temperature, your oil is 20 viscosity instead of 0 viscosity like it is when engine is cold. So.. it is thicker when warm. In other words, as the engine cools, and the oil thins out back to it's cold viscosity point... the oil flows more freely out of various nooks, crannies, and small oil channel porting and down into the pan. Note: these are complex oil blends, so this brief explanation is an over simplification of oil dynamics inside the engine, but I think the general point is clear.

Honda has specified a consistent procedure to check the oil level.. and best to stick with that procedure so that your oil checks are always apples-2-apples.

 

4 Decades later. a lot can factor in and lot can be said on here. As long as I changed my oil & filter out, and add oil in, and take a mental note where I did it, the rest all works in. 4 years of ownership, not a single complaint on the level of Oil.

 

I verified that Honda says to check 3 minutes after a warm-engine shutdown. Our European car tells us to wait ten minutes.

And for those who seem surprised that their oil levels drop after many months, the manual states:

We recommend that you check the engine oil level every time you refuel

Whatever, the bottom line is:

Once you record the level the way the owners' manual recommends (flat ground 3 minutes after shutdown), check it again at the time and place (next moring, cold? On a sloping driveway?) and make THAT your new indicator of proper fill.

++++++++++++++

at warm engine temperature, your oil is 20 viscosity instead of 0 viscosity like it is when engine is cold. So.. it is thicker when warm.

That isn't exactly true. These days, the oil flows as its Base Stock (0 viscosity) indicates. When warm, the oil protects as well as it's higher number indicates (in this example, 20) due to its additive package.

Many manufacturers specify a higher number on engines that they expect to be 'thrashed'. Examples (for Hondas) are the S2000 and the Civic Si. Non-Honda examples are many Euro engines (the special Mercedes, Jaguar, or VW specs). Or the recommendation to use 0W-40 in 'spirited' applications (Toyota specified 5W-30 for the 2ZZ engines when used in the Celica, but the identical engine had 0W-40 recommended when used in the Lotus Elise).

 

I put this in a separate post, as it is tongue-in-cheek:


My Grandpa used to tell us that liquid levels rise because they are cold, and they want to be closer to the heat of the sun...

🤪

 

The level on my dipstick is anywhere from just below the high line to 1/8" over the high line when I check it at varying times with the engine hot or cold. I have my mechanic add 3.5 quarts of oil each service and I tell him that I will check the level later that day and adjust it as needed. To this day, I've never needed to adjust it (add more oil). IMO, that proves that not all of the old oil is draining out. Add to that fact that my new oil looks dirty relatively fast. Further evidence that not all of the old oil is draining out at service time. He rotates the wheels while it is draining, more than enough time to allow what oil is going to come out, come out.

 

I always check my oil after a couple hours after running -- or the next day. The reason is because oil can still drain into the pan. It's more accurate to check it when the engine is completely cool.

 

There has been a lot of great insights into this issue for me from everyone.



The main reason I started this thread is because I wanted to understand honestly which measurement is the true measurement of the oil pan.

Honda tells us post shut down at 3 minutes, although this does not seem like it is a true measurement in the oil pan. I wonder why 3 minutes vs 20 minutes as in 20 minutes the dipstick registers an additional 3/16 inch.

So, which should be considered the true level with which to monitor? The hot oil check puts me in the sweetspot but the cold (20 minutes post shutdown) puts me 1/8 above full. I understand that either situation I can still monitor oil level.

I was experiencing oil rise, so I went to 91 Octane and began checking per Honda recommendations and have been pretty happy with current results. My next fill up will be regular and see if the level holds.

I know I am overthinking this a bit, I just want to understand how it all works and the Honda engineers pathway to the 3 minute post shutdown versus the 20 minute post shutdown.

 

I sure miss the old days when you would roll over the hose, hear the ding-ding and three guys would RUN out, one to fill your tank, one to clean your glass and one to check your oil.
I suspect a lot of people won't want to check their oil at every fill up. I don't, but I do check it each morning before I set out.
I'm not too concerned. A naturally aspirated non-turbo and non-GDI engine should be pretty stable as far as oil is concerned.

 

You could move to NJ, but that’s pretty drastic.

 

While checking your oil level is important. Every fill -up is a little overkill for me plus in my neck of the woods I see alot of older females driving CRV's, like my wife. She is not doing that. For the 5TH Gen CRV plus for folks that have MY 20 CRV'S I'm confident that OD, injector issues plus weak battery's are problems that have been addressed long ago by Honda. If not, my CRV will be traded

 

All this thermal dynamics stuff has nothing to do with the oil level.

 

Curious as to why you think it's necessary to use 91 Octane in your CRV? I know the Owners Manual says 87 Octane or higher, but many automotive experts say that you are wasting money by using a higher octane fuel than called for.

 

There is one good reason that a lot of people miss. It isn't about the octane. It is about getting pure gas. I am not a fan of ethanol in my gas so I buy 91 here in the great white north as it is typically pure gas due to the need for such a thing for small engines and older cars that don't like ethanol even at 10% concentrations.

But that is the only reason as I am well aware that octane higher than the manual is pointless unless the engine ECU is retuned to take advantage of it.

Does it cost more? Yes. Is it my money? Yes.

My two cents....

Warm oil change will drain more oil... even on these very thin oils. But a warm oil change can be a hazard if you are doing it yourself so it requires more precaution and attention to detail.

Does it really matter though to get the last ounce or two of oil out of the pan? In my view, NO.

If the season is right, just do the change on a hot day after running the car and letting it sit for 10 or 15 minutes. That will let the oil all drain to the pan nicely.

 

After 3 minutes the proper amount of oil has drained back into the crankcase to get an accurate reading. Wait longer the level may be higher. To soon and it will register lower. Then again you may get some level rise due to the fuel in the oil as a side "benefit" of direct injection. So if the oil level is near the mark or slightly above after 3 minutes you are good.

 

I didn't have a headache when I started reading these posts. Now I do.

 

I just assume on a newer car the oil level will be fine as long as you have it serviced at the recommended intervals.

 

You should STILL check it periodically.

Many owners have found that shops (including dealers) over or under fill...

 

I have a 2020 Touring and as per Honda manual, I have just recently been checking the oil level 3 minutes after shutdown and the level has held perfectly for what is now my 2nd tankful of gas (91 octane)

I have noticed that after those 3 mintues , starting around 15 minutes later the oil level begins to rise and by the next morning the oil level will be 3/16 inch higher than it was after shutdown + 3 minutes.

So my question, what is actually happening? Where is that extra oil draining from and I am wondering why Honda asks us to check after shutdown vs in the morning with a cold engine.

Probably because most people that do check there oil check it while filling up at the gas station. Personally I can’t get an accurate read on my oil in the driveway because my driveway is sloped. And I doubt people check there oil first thing in the morning before heading off to work.

curious people are saying because oil expands with heat. Well duh. But the engine is not running and thus not producing new heat. So the oil is not getting hotter while checking the oil. certainly not enough to expand up your oil dip stick tube (if that’s happening you got way too much oil in the crankcase) Oil is simply draining out of the top of the engine, ie the valve train the has a lot of vtec oil related hardware.

 

I doubt people check there oil first thing in the morning before heading off to work.

I do, except it's not work I'm heading to as I'm retired.
I also check the tire pressures.
Seriously, it's well under five minutes to check oil and tires, once you get in the habit you hardly notice it.
Having a garage makes it easier. I can see why folks might not want to do it on the street, possibly in bad weather.

 

Sorry, I can't help. For about 35 years, I've changed my oil every 3000 early on, and now every 5000 miles. Never had a leak and never had a low oil pressure light turn on. After I change it, I check the level, and that's it. I never check it between changes. Most of them were Toyotas.

 

So if I want to get the most oil out when changing the oil - should I do the change on a cooled/cold motor (i.e. oil has had lots of time to drain back into pan)? Seems the 0W-20 oil is thin enough even when cold to flow out of the pan easily enough. Does this sound reasonable?

 

My two cents....

Warm oil change will drain more oil... even on these very thin oils. But a warm oil change can be a hazard if you are doing it yourself so it requires more precaution and attention to detail.

Does it really matter though to get the last ounce or two of oil out of the pan? In my view, NO.

 

After reading all the posts I've decided the following:
1) Honda has calibrated the marks on the oil dipstick to show what the proper level is 3 minutes after engine shutdown.
-- Once you've verified your oil level is where Honda says it should be after 3 minutes - - - if you are curious:
2) Check your oil again when the engine is cold and note where the oil level is then - maybe even add a scratch mark to the oil dipstick.
RESULT: You will now have two reference points for proper oil fill (i.e. after 3 minutes - or when engine is cold) so you can continue checking your engine using whichever procedure you are most comfortable with (3 minutes after shutdown - or when cold). Seems like this approach should satisfy everyone.

 

Since many here bring cars into service, you basically ride out, satisfied? You do tell the Technician on your next visit, or simply do it all over again, leave satisfied?

 

Tell the technician what? Sorry, I’m not following your question.

 

You are probably getting a more accurate reading at 15 minutes. These comments of hot vs cold expansion, considering oil would be insignificant. I believe if you would check it after 15 minutes and check it again after the car sat all night cold, you will get the same reading. Why are you using 91 octane?

 

Why are you using 91 octane?

I have been experiencing oil rise since the day I bought my 2020. After reading some parts here, I decided to try 2 tanks of 91 Octane.

The results have been remarkable. No oil rise since this change. The weather has been warmer, 30-50 f.

My next tank will be regular to complete this experiment.

This is my reasoning.

 

On a newer model years, unless you see puddles under the car, or blue smoke pouring out the exhaust, I’d say stop checking the oil so compulsively and it will be fine.

 

So, after the first 4 months of ownership, I definitely was experiencing oil rise. I created this thread because of the different ways to monitor the level between hot/cold.

I ran 2 tankfuls of 91 Octane and then I followed that up with regular gas. All 3 tankfuls had a consistent oil level, whether hot or cold reference.

It was minor, but the level held better with 91. From October-February, the level rose. Maybe it was because of the winter weather, but again I bought this in September, so the first 3 months was cold fall like weather 30's - 40's and oil rose all during this time.

February was also in the 30's and 20's when I began this experiment. It is still only around 50 here now. I wonder if it is possible to be a break in issue? Maybe winter is an issue? My CRV has always heated up operating temp quickly.

Well, anyway, whether checking hot or cold, I am pleased with the results and now have gone to checking just when refueling.

I would be interested if anyone with a 2020 has experienced any of these same issues. Hopefully, smooth sailing from here on out.

 

I purchased my Touring on 10/30/20.

5170 miles so far, MM is at 40%. Overall average 29.8 mpg

Oil has remained dead steady at the upper mark on the dipstick, both when measured after 3 min and when cold.

It does have the block heater and it was plugged in all winter. I'm fastidious about warmup and initial operations when cold. I also make sure never to short-trip it (under 10 miles) when it's cold outside.

I also give it the beans and do some full-throttle pulls on the highway and mountain passes not infrequently.

Pleased so far as the dilution was something I was wary of at purchase. Definitely plan on getting a Blackstone analysis done at the first oil change.

Edit to add: it's always had 91 octane. No legitimate reason to use it for performance or mileage, but I waste the money anyway.

 

It does have the block heater and it was plugged in all winter. I'm fastidious about warmup and initial operations when cold. I also make sure never to short-trip it (under 10 miles) when it's cold outside.

I was nice to read about someone similiar to my situation. I am not sure what your winters are like, but seeing you are using a block heater, I would assume similiar to mine here in Minnesota. If a short trip is considered less than 10 miles, I short trip daily to my job. This short trip should not be a consideration for a $30,000+ vehicle

I am at 4500 miles with MM at 50%. I have however changed my oil 3 times because of the oil going above the orange plastic on dipstick.

Coincidence or not, but beginning in Februrary, my last oil change, my level has not changed. During this time I have been using 91 Octane. February was extremely cold here, -25 F. I did do one tank with regular and the level still held, although just a tad higher.

None of this makes sense to me. It cannot be fuel blend because it was still winter here. I purchased in the fall and the oil rise was from day 1.

Is it at all possible that this is a break in thing? I am ecstatic that this issue seems resolved, and I would just like to understand. The winter might bring about a different story, but it is now something I am fine with. The MM would have me change oil at 10,000 miles, which does seem excessive to me.

Edit to add: it's always had 91 octane. No legitimate reason to use it for performance or mileage, but I waste the money anyway.

I understand this is wasting money, but I will continue to do so because it seems to be giving me good results. At the cost of an extra $12/month, it seems like a good trade off for me.

 

@blueclouds I'm in the CO Rockies at 9k ft., so we definitely get extreme cold. Best I've seen in my years here is -48° F. I remember starting a work vehicle without a block heater during that cold snap and that engine sounded tortured for several minutes until the oil flowed.

Re: short tripping, I'm basing it on the owner's manual's definition of "severe" service and their recommendation for shortened oil change intervals: For frequent trips in cold weather below freezing, less than 10 miles is considered a short trip, in warmer weather less than 5 miles (from a cold start).

Your short trip to the office could very well contribute to the oil level rise you saw--water as well as dreaded fuel are both byproducts of such operating parameters.

Short tripping, of course, is hard on any engine and always has been--it's a matter of getting the crankcase up to operating temperature to be able to purge moisture, fuel, and blowby remnants through the PCV valve and exhaust.

Glad to hear your issue seems to be sorted for now, hope it continues this way. Since you can't move your office or your house, the easiest solution to avoid future issues would be to change the oil on a shorter interval.

Headed in for my first oil change this week. 5600 miles and MM says 30%, but I'm going in early as I'm headed on a 2000 mile road trip in a few weeks and don't want to have to stop in the middle of the trip. Blackstone oil container is ready for its sample, very curious to see the results.

 

@blueclouds I'm in the CO Rockies at 9k ft., so we definitely get extreme cold. Best I've seen in my years here is -48° F. I remember starting a work vehicle without a block heater during that cold snap and that engine sounded tortured for several minutes until the oil flowed.

Re: short tripping, I'm basing it on the owner's manual's definition of "severe" service and their recommendation for shortened oil change intervals: In cold weather below freezing, less than 10 miles is considered a short trip, in warmer weather less than 5 miles.

Short tripping, of course, is hard on any engine and always has been--it's a matter of getting the crankcase up to operating temperature to be able to purge moisture, fuel, and blowby remnants through the PCV valve and exhaust.

Glad to hear your issue seems to be sorted for now, hope it continues this way.

Headed in for my first oil change this week. 5600 miles and MM says 30%, but I'm going in early as I'm headed on a 2000 mile road trip in a few weeks and don't want to have to stop in the middle of the trip. Blackstone oil container is ready for its sample, very curious to see the results.

"Best I've seen is -48° F" I'd hate to see what worst was...LOL