Theres a reason why Honda's often top reliability charts.

Its down to regular maintenance to ensure everything works. If you never change fluids, then it stands to reason that degradation over time will ruin the car.

Try asking the owners of German cars how they feel about lifetime fluids etc 😂

 

For example Toyota are little more reliable and require less scheduled maintenance. I agree that I would never buy a German car until they improve their reliability.

 

Toyota are more reliable and require less scheduled maintenance.

Very broad brush statement.

Which Toyota's (models) are you referring to and from which country? Over here in the UK, there are a fair Toyota's which are pretty poor.

 

I dont follow biased musings of comparision websites. JD Power is another site that is full of rubbish too. I've seen my fair share of RAV4's broken down on the motorway, indeed on fire too (Good old Hybrid batteries!).....so no, I personally dont prescribe to these paid biases.

Labour here in the UK is pricey too - shopping around is the name of the game.

Regular maintenance is good practice - you'd be singing a different tune if you had the misfortune of a real POS like a BMX X3, X5, Audi Q5, Q7 or VW Tiguan or some other junkmobile from Germany....

 

Regular maintenance is good practice - you'd be singing a different tune if you had the misfortune of a real POS like a BMX X3, X5, Audi Q5, Q7 or VW Tiguan or some other junkmobile from Germany....

Someone posted they had bought an X3 and a CR-V at the same time, and three years later the Honda was worth more than the BMW.
I'm surprised it took 3 years.

 

many transmissions have nowadays lifetime fluid

That is "Lifetime, until the expiration of the factory warranty". 😒

Don't complain, our '90 Accord recommended valve clearance checks every 6,000 miles.😒 Towards the end of its 100,000 mile stint under our care, they were rarely out of specification.

I remember magazines like Consumer Reports would mention the higher maintenance during the 90s on Honda products. So, what did Honda do? They said Gen1 CR-Vs only needed 100K valve clearance checks, and that rear diff fluid needed to be changed every 90,000 miles. The factory PAID for many differential and cylinder head replacements during that time.

 

That changed when I was working for Honda. Rear diff oil changes at 30k. Valve adjustment at 60k

 

Like many folks, I drive a vehicle (like my wife's 2014 CRV) and do its scheduled Engine Oil/Filter change only when needed, check/clean their brakes every 6 months (spring and fall) and look at "recommended" factory Maintenance schedule chart. Then, decide if it needs a fluid change. Most often, I skip that recommended interval and do the next. Or, then next after. For example: Change internal cabin air filter before entering winter time months? Nope. I change myself in the spring time and only if its really dirty. Remember that some of those maintenance things are money makers.

Also remember that "maintenance schedule" is based on how one drives the vehicle as well. For example: Are you the last one to stop at the light? Are you the first one to take off from the light? If yes, then follow the severe column in the maintenance schedule. For my usual normal day driving style, I wish they had an "old lady driving style" column in their charts. Smiles.

This works for me....

 

I really don't think it's a lot of maintenance. Repair Pal lists the costs of ownership well below that of a lot of domestic vehicles. The Maintenance Minder tells you when most things are due -- and severe driving intervals are included outside of the MM just under the MM in the manual.

The automakers saying 100-150,000 mile transmission fluid change intervals are also having a lot of transmission reliability issues as well As for the valve adjustment/check at 100,000 miles, that's just an average mileage check of the clearance since these are NOT hydraulic valve lifters, but solid. Solid lifting valvetrains may need adjustment periodically -- which was extremely necessary for the old B series engines, and perhaps with the early K series, but less with the newer K24Z6/Z7/W -- (if noisy or uneven) which could be at any mileage -- depending on how you drive it and type of oil used [could be 140-150k or as few as 50k] -- but Honda chose to use solid because they make more power and take higher RPM (albeit at the cost of increased adjustment intervals).

Solid Vs. Hydraulic Lifters - Mopar Muscle Magazine

Read on as we give you the rundown on the differences between solid cams and hydraulic lifters. For more information and details, stay tuned on Mopar Muscle Magazine

www.hotrod.com

Part of what makes imports like Honda and Toyota more reliable are the service intervals -- which really aren't that bad.

Engine oil: as indicated; transmission/rear diff fluid every 25-30k, brake fluid exchange every 3 years, coolant change every 5 years, tire rotation every 5-6,000 miles, air filters: as indicated or as needed, spark plugs: as indicated... it's all pretty much in the MM or manual. I really don't think the maintenance is excessive at all -- and anything less on ANY other make/model would be neglect (IMO).

 

Its the unscheduled maintenance ... regardless of make or model ... that I don't care for.

 

In my book, UNschedued maintenance is also known as "repairs".

 

Take a swing over to the "High Mileage" Forum and you'll read where most, if not all folks with high mileage had all the regularly scheduled maintenance performed....or more often. That's what contributes to longevity in a Honda.

 

And, as is often mentioned, Toyota sells to fleets, Honda does not. Fleets include rental vehicle fleets and corporates fleets. IF there was a way to compare just individual owner purchases, I guess it would be much closer. BUT what difference does that make, At one time, Chevy sold more Impalas than any other sedan, same for Ford Taurus. That doesn't mean they were the best vehicles.

EDIT: Interesting, the Acura RDX sales for 2020 are actually up 1.9% while both Toyota RAV4 and Honda CR-V sales are down.

 

Other than the differential fluid change, really don't see my CRV's maintenance costs that different than my Civic Coupe. Ok, ya got me, the CRV has 3 wiper blades.

 

I don't understand how people think. Some of the ideas they come up with always baffles me.
Simple answer IMO, maintenance makes anything last.

 

I don't understand how people think. Some of the ideas they come up with always baffles me.
Simple answer IMO, maintenance makes anything last.

Amen. Would you board an aircraft if you knew they had skipped some scheduled maintenance?

 

I believe that most of us follow the Honda minder and maintain our CRVs without skipping any service. However, Honda needs to update their technology and keep up with the competitors on the schedule maintenance front.
Examples:
CRV needs differential fluid every about 20k mi when Toyota, Jeep etc have lifetime fluid.
CRV needs trans fluid every about 30k mi when Toyota, Jeep etc have lifetime fluid.
CRV needs valve adjustment at around 100k when Mazda, Ford, Jeep etc have maintenance free hydraulic valves.
CRV and most others need brake pads and rotors every about 40k when hybrids need every 150k.
CRV and most others need serpentine belt every about 100k when Lexus hybrids and others have no belt.
CRV and most others need oil changes every about 8k when Tesla and other electric need no oil changes.

You got the idea!

 

I believe that most of us follow the Honda minder and maintain our CRVs without skipping any service. However, Honda needs to update their technology and keep up with the competitors on the schedule maintenance front.
Examples:
CRV needs differential fluid every about 20k mi when Toyota, Jeep etc have lifetime fluid.
CRV needs trans fluid every about 30k mi when Toyota, Jeep etc have lifetime fluid.
CRV needs valve adjustment at around 100k when Mazda, Ford, Jeep etc have maintenance free hydraulic valves.
CRV and most others need brake pads and rotors every about 40k when hybrids need every 150k.
CRV and most others need oil changes every about 8k when Tesla and other electric need no oil changes.

You got the idea!

They can keep their "Lifetime" fluids. You have to remember they only need to get the vehicle past the warranty period.
It just makes sense to me that keeping fluids clean and free of oxidation products etc. will minimize the chance of problems over time, and you can't convince me that such products don't accumulate in the "lifetime" fluids.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it's cheap insurance.

 

Lifetime fluids kill cars because people assume that their name is literally true.

I think the point some people are trying to make on this thread is that all cars require the same maintenance Honda specifies. Honda is simply the one company honest enough to tell you that's how much maintenance a car requires.

I would take exception to the hydraulic valves thing. My first car was a 97 Geo Metro, with the 1.3L 4cyl, and it had hydraulic valve lifters, for which I was very grateful.

One of the people on this thread posted a fascinating article about the advantages and disadvantages of solid valve lifters versus hydraulic. I would agree with the preference for hydraulic lifters, since this is not exactly a performance application, but sadly, Honda did not agree.

On the bright side, these engines will probably still be running long after all of the hydraulic valve lifters made in the same years have died out.

 

Lifetime fluids kill cars because people assume that their name is literally true.

I think the point some people are trying to make on this thread is that all cars require the same maintenance Honda specifies. Honda is simply the one company honest enough to tell you that's how much maintenance a car requires.

Initially I thought the rear-end fluid change suggestion was a little on the too often side.
Then I studied how it worked. That's a busy little box back there.
I'm satisfied. Maybe I'll change it even more often.
I suppose if you plan to trade the car in a few years "Lifetime" might have some meaning, but the term is pure puffery, and probably not legally enforceable (except at great cost).
Youtube is full of "How to change your lifetime fluid" videos, though none from authoritative sites of course, but they rack up thousands of views. Somebody must want to do it.

 

My wife used to have a Malibu that had no dipstick for the transmission. The owner's manual said that there was "no need to check the fluid level unless it is low."

I don't need that kind of "technology" in my vehicle, thank you.

 

I miss the days I used to grease the front suspension, change the distributor cap and rotor, the spark plug wires, changing the timing belt and repack the bearings. I felt I was maintain my car more! 😂

 

Yes, and the points! I don't miss it one bit! In fact, I cheered when they stopped putting zerk fittings on cars.

 

Nothing is lifetime.
I'm pushing 70 years old and I can't remember the last time I had a vehicle fail to start or break down when on the road. I have bought used vehicles until this CR-V, bought new.
I do maintenance BEFORE the owners manual suggests. That includes all fluids, spark plugs and wires etc.

Jellyfish have survived 650 million years despite having no brains giving hope to many people.

 

Jellyfish have survived 650 million years despite having no brains giving hope to many people.

...judging by some of comments on this and many other forums, that hope is not universal!!

 

Who would have guessed that joining the CRVOC would give us lessons in philosophy?



As I said on another forum once, I believe that oil filters are a manufacturers' ploy to mark up parts cost, and get owners to spend money. My dad's old '57 Chevy six didn't need an oil filter...we just changed the oil as required every 1500 miles!


^^^ Just kidding (but that oil change interval was REAL).

 

Yup! First car my dad bought was a new 1955 Chevy 210, (2 door 265 ci V8 engine, three on the tree). He had a company car before that. It also did not have an oil filter! Or a radio! I discovered that when I was "allowed" to buy that car from him when I turned 16, and was told I needed to take it for an oil change. I took it to the auto shop in my high school, where many of the other guys were in awe of this car. I was sick and tired of it as it had been the family car for years and years...but I was thrilled to have a car (and unlike some of the cars of the time that were being sold, it had a front bench seat! ) Some of my friends were buying 2 or 3 year old 65 Mustangs. (yes, anyone good at math can figure out my age!)

I often I wish I still had that car, it would be worth a whole lot more than the $200 dad made me pay him for it.

Maintenance? Lube, oil change, points, condensers, distributor caps, spark plugs, spark plug wires, air filters (which were VERY easy to change, as were spark plugs) tire replacements at about 8,000 miles (bias ply), alignments, brake jobs, (4 wheel drum brakes that almost never provided a straight stop). These items were "regular" maintenance.

Yes, Hondas require maintenance. LOL

 

When the car manufacturers removed the jerk fittings from ball joints and tie rods many ignorant people were claiming that the sealed lifetime greased parts will fail. Well there are millions of cars with hundreds of thousand miles and suspension is still running fine with their LIFETIME sealed suspension parts.

 

I never liked the jerk fittings, I preferred the zerk fittings.

 

Everyone has a different view on vehicle service, the availability of competent, reliable and fairly priced services for any make of car is a real variable for most of us. Individual actual and perceived needs also differ greatly. Weather you are interested in your vehicle or indifferent also enters into the equation, as well as how long you plan to keep it. If a vehicle is leased, or short-term (2-3 years) ownership, I'd generally do the factory reccomended services to satisfy the requirements of the lease and to keep it in reliable operating condition. Owning it and planning using it for 50-75k miles or longer as I usually do, I have my own set of maintenance standards, somewhat in excess of factory requirements. Based on a 25 year career as a Biomedical Technician, maintaining medical equipment, I understand the MTBF (mean time between failures) formula, in that most failures usually occur in the last third of estimated service life, (that includes fluids, batteries, tires, etc) I find that better maintenance using quality parts usually equals longer service life with increased reliability. Earlier, more frequent service for me translates into peace-of-mind.

 

On my 2018 EX-L I couldn't find a maintenance list. Looking over the internet I found a great variation in when people should change transmission fluid, brake fluid, etc. I called my dealer and he said there was the Hondalink which tells you time to do your maintenance and go by that. When dealers tell you averages it is just an average and not based on the individual car. Even though my dealer suggested a brake fluid update at 30000 miles, the Hondalink finally showed me that it needed one at about 40000 miles. He said that by basing things on the Hondalink you would be fine.

 

I agree about some of the "recommended" maintenance minders. No one I've spoken to thinks that brake fluid needs to be changed every 3 years/30K miles since virtually no other vehicle on the highway suggests it before 60K miles or five years.
When I asked the service manager at my local dealer last week why Honda says this, he said it was because someone with a whiteboard at a meeting years ago said it was a good idea and everyone agreed. When the service manager can't come up with a better excuse than that....it's time to question the logic of avery other recommendation.
BTW, I went ahead and had the service done anyway but the feeling is that you're getting ripped off on these maintenance minder codes and there's no actual "real" mileage amounts to reference them to. And yes I've heard all the alleged reasons why they do it that way - but if it was so great, why aren't all the other manufacturers doing it too?

 

No one I've spoken to thinks that brake fluid needs to be changed every 3 years/30K miles since virtually no other vehicle on the highway suggests it before 60K miles or five years.

Many manufacturers recommend three-year brake fluid replacement. Our high-end European car does.

I've seen old brake lines rust internally and fail on hard braking.

 

Brake fluid is the critical one to change every 2-3 years. It absorbs water from the atmosphere whether you drive the car or not, and that lowers the boiling point. Brakes get hot in mountain driving, the fluid boils, you lose any brake power, and then you are dead or crippled.

Racers may replace the brake fluid every day or so.

 

Other issues to consider is if you live in an area where the A/C evaporator core is prone to damage from corrosion (salt air environments) which in a place like Hawaii is very frequent. Most A/C failures there are due to evaporator core leaks. On most Toyotas, you need to remove the entire dash to get to it, somewhere between 6-8 hours of labor alone, while on most Hondas it's a mere 2 hour job because the dash does not have to be removed despite their evaporator core being located in the center like most other manufacturers. It's engineering that matters. Another example is spark plug replacement on a Toyota Sienna van vs. a Honda Odyssey van. Try 3 hours or so on the Toyota and a mere 40 minutes (if that) on a Honda. Things like that do matter in the course of vehicle ownership. Of course, if you're one of those who can switch cars every 3 years or so, good on you, but many like myself hang on to cars 10-15 years if not longer because I just can't afford new ones.

 

I just had my 2003 CRV EX's trans fluid changed for what I think was the first time (I bought it used) @ about 147,000 miles. No problems before or since.

 

If you want to hear something interesting, I only changed my 2000 Mustang GT's brake fluid AND rear differential fluid once in its 20 year/156,000 mile career before I sold it; however, that was because there was no indicated maintenance in the book! However, all was fine... so it all really depends; however, I did have to go through 3 sets of brakes and one transmission -- but the differential was fine (weird). I guess Honda does things proactively, but in the case of the new transmissions, I suggest more than what they even recommend since they don't have a trans cooler.

 

Are you saying that you had 3 sets of brakes installed and during those changes the brake fluid was never changed? That is not the norm is it? If I install new brakes then I also change-out the brake fluid too.