[Nuke]

Thanks for sharing.

I see it is labeled as a Group 4A. First time I have seen a Group 4 battery in a Honda. Group 4s are classified as heavy duty commercial and special tractor batteries, and are available in both 12vdc and 6vdc. The "A" classification is probably to note it is specified for Automobile use.

My guess is that this battery has more robust plates, to account for higher loading of start/stop cycles in a hybrid. The CCA is low compared to larger batteries, but pretty close to the same as a 51R. It does however have a 57amp/hour reserve capacity, making it's reserve capacity ~ the same as the Group 24 Batteries Honda puts into all it's V6 vehicles ..so clearly this battery is designed for numerous starts over time due to the auto start stop feature. A 51R by comparison has a reserve capacity of 40-45 amp/hours.

It looks physically very much like what Honda now puts in new generation Accords, and now Civics (both of which have a 1.5T engine)... which is labeled as an H5 Class battery. H5 is similar to Group 24 in CCA and reserve capacity.

Does anyone know if this battery is also in the non-hybrid 2020 CRVs? Or perhaps the new 2020 1.5T CRVs come with an H5 as they do now in Accords and Civics.

It will be interesting to see if this battery group class now in the hybrid = fewer complaints about early dead batteries. Time will tell. I bet this battery is on the expensive side of battery pricing to replace though.

Yes I figure it will be expensive to replace but hoping for 5-6 years out of it and by then there should be some alternatives. Don’t use start stop and I keep my Batteries on maintainers when not driving regularly.

 

[williamsji]

Like I said in my original post, I am looking for greater endurance. 30% greater endurance seems significant to me.

It looks significant on first appraisal, but it really isn't. It is one more week of a CRV sitting idle before the battery depletes. To me significant would be a battery with a 70 to 80 amp/hour reserve capacity.. but that would be a huge battery as amp/hours correlate closely with physical size and mass.

If I were to upsize my battery on my CRV.. I would put the same battery Honda specifies for the Accords and Civics now ---> Group H5.

But in reality... maintaining your battery through monthly integrity checks using a consumer battery tester, checking electrolyte levels twice a year, and putting the battery on a smart charger maintainer once or twice a month will do more to prolong battery life than installing a larger battery. Even a larger battery will fail early if you literally ignore it and never check and maintain it on a regular basis.

But, as I always say.. your vehicle.. your choice. A group class upsizing is not hard to do, you just need a different tray and careful check to insure it fits under the hood and in the location where the battery is placed.

 

[BoostedV]

I have a 17 CRV that is 3+ years old. I have had zero problems with the battery in 36K miles. I don't do anything out of the ordinary and have never had an issue. I would really like to know why some batteries are failing and not others. I do on occasion monitor the voltage on my scan gauge, and it is usually at 14.3 volts on start and I have seen it down to 12. something after a long drive. Are there some bad batteries? or something wrong with the charge system?

same
Our crv will be 3 in october and battery tested good at honda ... so far so good!

 

[ondarvr]

I'm a fan of the larger battery, and fully agree a 25-30% improvement is desired on these vehicles. The larger battery is also stressed far less with each partially under charged start, which results in a much longer life.

The cost is minimal to do the upgrade, and is easily worth an extra two weeks of having the car start if it hasn't been used.

Its also interesting that the newer style battery is constructed more like a deep cycle battery, thicker plates and lower CCAs for more durability and extra reserve capacity. This may have been something brought up before, but shot down.

There is a combination of things that results in CRVs having battery problems. Some can be partially rectified like the battery size. I have no clue if there's a hack for the charging system programming, but it doesn't sound like there is.

Some CRVs had glitches that can be rectified with updated programming, others had defective parts.

Anecdotal evidence from people that have larger batteries indicates far fewer problems after it was installed.

A highly stressed small battery isn't going to last as long as a less stressed larger one.

 

[kloker]

Of course you can put any battery in your vehicle that you like, your vehicle, your choice.

But a Group 24 (or similar) is not going to buy you much in your gen3 CRV. A) you do not need the extra CCA, so that is a waste. B) a 24 only gives you about 25% more reserve charge capacity. C) gen3s have pretty low normal parasitic.. so the only thing you really have to deal with in a gen3 is the normal slow self-drain characteristics of the battery itself and the fact that every battery made is a ticking clock that ticks down persistently until it fails some years after the electrolyte is activated.

A gen5 benefits more from installing a larger battery, simply for the extra reserve capacity, which can extend the period of time before a sitting CRV depletes it's battery due to normal power down parasitics. But even then, the difference is small... 40-45 days idle vs 30-35 with a stock 51R installed.

Early battery failure is much more about allowing a battery to sit at a persistently low charge state, which accelerates plate sulfation + lack of any periodic checks and maintenance on these batteries.. which are not actually maintenance free. This is true.. regardless of the size battery you choose to install. Which is why periodic maintenance checks and use of a smart charger is such a benefit for motor vehicle battery life expectancy.

It will buy me what I want (along with the NOCO Genius 5 smart batter tender I am installing with it), which is better tolerance for sitting between trips without becoming too critically discharged, and more reserve, since I am planning an audio upgrade that will include amps. I also went with an AGM this time, my first. Hopefully, together, the new setup will work better for me. I do have to deal with high summer temps and infrequent trips, so I can use all the help I can get, especially when the audio upgrade is done. Also, Those "on-paper" numbers (40-45 days idle vs 30-35) are a fantasy here, where my 51R's (all 3) would last no more than 4-5 days to maybe 7 idle before needing a jump. That's with no measurable parasitic draw, an otherwise healthy alternator, starter, and electrics, and using top-shelf quality batteries. I suspect it is just down to the much lower quality of current batteries being produced today. Even the big-a** batteries in my '91 big block F250 never lasted more than 18 months at a time. I don't know anyone here who isn't experiencing the same issues. Our tropical heat is a big factor, but I remember them lasting much longer in the good old days. I suspect makers have tripled their sales since they adopted the "new" lower quality in the last 5-7 years. It hasn't made them cheaper, though, has it? Battery life just isn't what it used to be.

My only concerns with the new AGM are whether it has better heat tolerance and better quality. I also hope the upgrade helps to preserve starter life. For the price, I certainly hope so, but only time will tell.

 

[fishycomics]

one good reason I do not want a start/stop car, or uh you can turn it OFF and then see if continued drain. for me going ot will figure my drain out.

 

[Theman5]

Maybe this explains it:
View attachment 139057

Wish we could get 41 months in FL.
Problem is maintenance free batteries aren't that at all. You loose electrolyte and if not replenished to correct levels, plates are uncovered and battery soon dies

 

[BigD]

Just the other week I replaced the original battery that was in our 2014 CRV with a new Interstate 51R battery. That original battery lasted 6+ years even after being discharged down to nothing 3 different times because "someone" left the key on for over 24 hours.

 

[lowbar]

Does anyone know for sure if this battery is also in the non-hybrid 2020 CRVs?

Yep, picture from my 2020 Touring 1.5T

 

[SVTfocusO3]

I have a 17 Lx, same problems, Honda battery test good, so bought a charger/maintainer. I see people refer to "upsizing" like you said, but the Gen 5, does not look like much room, so reference to others may be USELESS.

Oh, and I turned all my door/trunk lights off; kids. (just in case.)

Some other thing I came across on my search as well. Did not know, until after I checked (idle) with multimeter on battery and was still battery voltage, but 14v+ after i drove.

https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1011&context=auto_pres

 

[JB in AZ]

Thanks for posting this link. Others have mentioned this two stage charging, and have even figured a way to trick it into charging at the higher rate (by turning on the headlights during the day).

 

[kloker]

Interesting! I l looked up the 4A designation and it shows a small motorcycle battery. According to the Advance Auto Parts site, the correct battery for the 2020 1.5Lt is the Group Size H5. Most of the online sites do not yet show a listing for this vehicle, and the ones that do show the A4, which is not a BCI number as far as I can find, and also not the correct battery for the car. I'm sure the A4 designation has some significance, but all else I've found shows the Group SIze H5. THe H5 appears to be a bit smaller than the Group 35 but very close. Same on specs.
Here's a link: Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance .

That's the only listing they showed for the car. Still, a considerably larger battery than the 51R.

 

[williamsji]

Its also interesting that the newer style battery is constructed more like a deep cycle battery, thicker plates and lower CCAs for more durability and extra reserve capacity. This may have been something brought up before, but shot down.

It does have a different design profile than the classic vehicle starter battery, but it better not be an actual deep cycle battery design.. because generally those perform very poorly as starter batteries for motor vehicles.

The one advantage to more robust plates is they can take the surge cycles better, AND are more mechanically sound so they should suffer less from mechanical shocks that are common simply from driving a motor vehicle on a variety of road surfaces.

It is probably a sound path for vehicles with auto start/stop and with so many manufacturers moving in that direction.. it will likely drive a shift in battery designs by the big producers.

Thing is.. lead acid flooded cell batteries are inherently unreliable compared to the rest of a modern motor vehicle. And changing the design as the needs of vehicle manufacturers change will just introduce new weak points of failure (yet to be characterized in the field). The 51R is a poster child example of this in action..... designed and produced to reduce weight and space needed in the era of compact and subcompact motor vehicles with small engines that are easy to crank... yet carries the liability of thinner plate design and less actual amp/hrs of reserve charge capacity.

 

[williamsji]

Interesting! I l looked up the 4A designation and it shows a small motorcycle battery. According to the Advance Auto Parts site, the correct battery for the 2020 1.5Lt is the Group Size H5. Most of the online sites do not yet show a listing for this vehicle, and the ones that do show the A4, which is not a BCI number as far as I can find, and also not the correct battery for the car. I'm sure the A4 designation has some significance, but all else I've found shows the Group SIze H5. THe H5 appears to be a bit smaller than the Group 35 but very close. Same on specs.
Here's a link: Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance .

That's the only listing they showed for the car. Still, a considerably larger battery than the 51R.

There is a group class in BCI = 4 Different alpha suffixes then sub classify the battery for a particular application. For example... Group 4 batteries appear in the BCI tables for both 6v and 12v variants.. and are differentiated by a different alpha character to the suffix. The "A" suffix is probably new and as such may not show up in many BCI tables posted on the internet yet... but that will change as the battery class proliferates in consumer vehicles and tables get updated.

The key characteristic of Group 4 = classified for heavy duty use, historically for tractors. So.. I imagine the battery companies simply leveraged that core design and modified it from there for consumer motor vehicle use.

Group 4 should perform better long term in an auto start/stop vehicle by virtue of it's heavy duty design, compared to the big H5s Honda quietly slipped into newer Hondas sporting the 1.5T in the last couple years. I like the H5 battery class a lot.. and have been very pleased having one as the stock battery in my wifes 2018 Accord with a 1.5T.

I do think the Group 4s represent a better battery group for repetitive stop/start cycles of newer vehicles. The thing I do not know though is how a Group 4 battery will perform in terms of life expectancy if the owner always disables the auto start/stop feature each time they drive. Time will tell.

 

[ondarvr]

It does have a different design profile than the classic vehicle starter battery, but it better not be an actual deep cycle battery design.. because generally those perform very poorly as starter batteries for motor vehicles.

The one advantage to more robust plates is they can take the surge cycles better, AND are more mechanically sound so they should suffer less from mechanical shocks that are common simply from driving a motor vehicle on a variety of road surfaces.

It is probably a sound path for vehicles with auto start/stop and with so many manufacturers moving in that direction.. it will likely drive a shift in battery designs by the big producers.

Thing is.. lead acid flooded cell batteries are inherently unreliable compared to the rest of a modern motor vehicle. And changing the design as the needs of vehicle manufacturers change will just introduce new weak points of failure (yet to be characterized in the field). The 51R is a poster child example of this in action..... designed and produced to reduce weight and space needed in the era of compact and subcompact motor vehicles with small engines that are easy to crank... yet carries the liability of thinner plate design and less actual amp/hrs of reserve charge capacity.

When it comes to starting and deepcycle batteries its not an either/or design.

It's a sliding scale from one design to the other based on needs of the application. As long as the CCAs and battery design meets the need it can be used for starting.

Using a small and light battery with high CCAs to reduce cost, weight and increase mileage by an imperceptible amount may work well in some applications.

As more demands are placed on the battery from software that runs even when the car isn't running the battery design needs to transition to the deepcycle design side.

This will increase cost and weight, but is a more correct design for this application.

The relatively low CCAs needed to start these engines means you aren't exceeding or stressing the DC batteries lower CCA rating (assuming its sized correctly).

This appears to be exactly what Honda has done in transitioning to the different battery.

 

[williamsji]

When it comes to starting and deepcycle batteries its not an either/or design.

It's a sliding scale from one design to the other based on needs of the application. As long as the CCAs and battery design meets the need it can be used for starting.

Using a small and light battery with high CCAs to reduce cost, weight and increase mileage by an imperceptible amount may work well in some applications.

As more demands are placed on the battery from software that runs even when the car isn't running the battery design needs to transition to the deepcycle design side.

This will increase cost and weight, but is a more correct design for this application.

The relatively low CCAs needed to start these engines means you aren't exceeding or stressing the DC batteries lower CCA rating (assuming its sized correctly).

This appears to be exactly what Honda has done in transitioning to the different battery.

FACT: Deep cycle batteries make poor starter batteries. They lack the CCA characteristics needed for quick starting of motor vehicle engines.

FACT: Starter batteries make poor deep cycle batteries. They lack the ability to recover from a deep discharge cycle without damage to the battery integrity.

The two classes of batteries serve widely different purposes, and as such are designed differently. There is a reason that the two different classes of batteries exist.... for different applications. Because the needs are different, so the design characteristics are also different. Using one in an application where the other is a better choice = poor design decision.

In the case of this new battery in the 2020 CRVs... clearly the need to address a much higher than normal number of start cycles over time (due to auto start/stop) puts a different demand on a battery design. And again.. what the 4A design is based on is the BCI group 4 class of batteries designed to serve the long standing heavy duty demands of the tractor class of vehicles, which are designed for lots of start and stop cycles in the use of vehicles like tractors. Deep cycle batteries on the other hand evolved from the need for long idle time and continuous power and current delivery in marine vehicles AND the ability to be completely discharged without permanent damage to the battery (ie: boats, RVs, etc).. where actual frequent and efficient engine starting is very much a secondary consideration.

If Honda just needed more reserve capacity in a battery (which I think we all agree is desirable).. they could have just stuck to the H5 they have been using in Accords and Civics successfully in recent years. The fact that they chose a battery group historically associated with heavy duty tractor class vehicle use means something... and I think that "something" goes to the higher demand in number of expected starts/stops over the life of the battery in the new 2020 CRVs.

The vote is of course still out on if this new 4A battery represents a general improvement for CRV owners, or for that matter any owner of a modern vehicle with auto start/stop features. Time will tell. It does have higher reserve capacity (which is good for serving normal higher parasitics in modern vehicles). And it does not provide the high CCA of a starter battery of the same physical profile (and that is fine because more than 400 CCA is a waste on the small engines Honda is using these days).

 

[ondarvr]

You seem to be hung up on the idea that a battery needs to be at one end of the scale or the other.

Batteries are designed someplace on the scale as the need requires.

If you go to the extreme ends of the scale the performance drops off for the opposite use. This is what Honda experienced.

There is a balance in there somewhere.

DC batteries make poor starting batteries due to the low CCAs for their size, sizing the battery correctly for the CCAs required helps to solve this. The problem is the size and cost increases if you plan to use it for starting purposes. This isn't something the automotive industry wants to do.

From my personal experience, a large deepcycle battery used for starting purposes lasts much longer than a small starting battery that is frequently discharged, or is rarely or never fully charged.

 

[SVTfocusO3]

Ok but what will fit in the Gen 5, does not look like much room with master cylinder there on 2.4. That is the question!

 

[williamsji]

Ok but what will fit in the Gen 5, does not look like much room with master cylinder there on 2.4. That is the question!

I cannot comment on a gen5 with the 2.4L in it. Show us some photos, or wait for an owner with a 2.4 who has upsized their battery.

But for gen5s with the 1.5T there is clearly room for a Group 24, or a group H5... and you may or may not need a new tray for these (need to actually measure and check). And of course this new 4A we have been discussing fits.... as it is the standard in the 2020s.

 

[ocean]

I’ve had it with the 51R battery size chosen by Honda for the Gen 5 CRV. I am on my second Honda battery, the first one was replaced under my New Car Warranty in September 2018. I know that it is totally my fiscal responsibility to replace my current battery, so I’m not going to mess around with another Honda battery. My 2017 EXL has been jump started 7 times in the last 3.5 years, way too often as far as I’m concerned. Actually each of my Honda batteries made it one whole year before they started failing, so it is really 7 jump starts in 1.5 years. So I want to replace my 51R battery with a larger battery with greater endurance.

Has anyone replaced their 51R with a larger battery that does not require any modifications to the existing battery containing hardware? Hardware like tie-downs, trays, cables, hood, etc.

I know this subject has been discussed many times before in the last 3.5 years but I don’t remember reading an actual answer to my question.

No, the original battery is sufficient. To install a bigger battery, you need to get a bigger base plate to house the bigger battery. I am not sure it is worth the cost.