Yes, the RT4WD engages in reverse. Turn off the traction control when you're stuck, I know it sounds weird, but if your stuck in snow, traction control will keep you from breaking free. It's really more for maintaining control when you're driving down a slippery snow-rain-icy road.

I'm pretty sure the manual says to keep it on at all times both on/off road, and to only turn it off only once you get stuck, then turn it back on once you're moving again. In my opinion traction control (stability assist, or whatever it's called on different cars and trucks) should be off at all times when OFF road and certainly when you're stuck or trying to get through deep snow.

 

Yes, the RT4WD engages in reverse. Turn off the traction control when you're stuck, I know it sounds weird, but if your stuck in snow, traction control will keep you from breaking free. It's really more for maintaining control when you're driving down a slippery snow-rain-icy road.

I'm pretty sure the manual says to keep it on at all times both on/off road, and to only turn it off only once you get stuck, then turn it back on once you're moving again. In my opinion traction control (stability assist, or whatever it's called on different cars and trucks) should be off at all times when OFF road and certainly when you're stuck or trying to get through deep snow.

Yep! In my Mustang, I always turn of stability if I am trying to get through snow (I know... snow and Mustangs don't mix, but with the right tires, it got me through when my wife had the CR-V). When I had stability on, it bogged down and wouldn't power out. When you turn it off, you're able to power out. Now to the CR-V... the thing about these 'on demand' AWD systems is that they don't work like an automatic 4X4 (like the Subaru's SAWD)... you really have to give them a lot of gas in order to put more power to the wheels that need it. We've never had a problem (knock on wood) with the 4th Gen CR-V in the snow -- and we live out in the country on a gravel road that gets some good snow drifts! Like others have mentioned, keep your vehicle firmware up to date... you never know what kind of updates they may have out (AWD etc).

 

I agree with thud105....but I hope you have snow tires and you have TPMS sensors installed ( depending on the year of your vehicle ) or you will not be able to turn off the traction control.

 

The CRV system will not provide enough torque to pull you up a hill. (as you have already proven) It is designed as a system for a vehicle in motion, if you will. By that I mean that Honda designed it to give you better traction and control (VSA) while it is moving down the road. The system is continually monitoring the wheels and the direction of the vehicle. If it sees a front wheel going faster than a rear wheel it will take some of the torque from the front drive and apply it to the rear. With VSA on it continually modifies the amount of torque to try to find better traction. With VSA off, it just applies a set amount of torque. That may be what you want when you are stuck. There is nothing wrong with your system, the front (spinning) overcame the rear and there was not enough torque being applied to the rear to make it break loose or to make it spin. Both differentials are essentially open.
A solution to get you out if it happens again is to let air out of all tires to about 17-20lb (till they look like they are starting to flatten) this will increase grip. Refill the tires ASAP once you are free and don't drive over about 25mph. No Guarantee!

Check out this vid to see what's happening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs


Does the AWD system engage when it's in reverse?

Shouldn't at least the traction control, or awd system prevent it from spinning a single wheel like it was a FWD car with an open differential?

Or is there something wrong with the system?[/QUOTE]

 

Check out this vid to see what's happening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OzK-oRPCbs

Fixer, all that is good advice. This video link however in my opinion is an attempt at viral marketing by Subaru, so I’d take it with a grain of salt. The narrator says two things that standout. First, “the traction control is on”. As I said before turn that off when you’re stuck; if you can. Second he says “from this test we can surmise that the CR-V differential can’t transmit enough torque to send it up the ramp”. That in my opinion is nonsense, it most certainly can make it up the ramp.

I found another Subaru video where the CR-V goes right up the exact same ramp no problem once the guy gives it a little gas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlL0AybxBlE Of course they’re still bashing the CR-V since it is a Subaru commercial. I’m not saying the CRV RT4WD is a perfect system, it's not, but I’ve driven Subaru’s magical “symmetrical AWD” in the snow… and yes, it’s a really good system, but my CR-V went everywhere the Subaru went with NO problems, including up a steep snow covered gravel driveway.

 

Yeh thud105, I agree that it may have gone up with VSA off, but I was just trying to explain why it did not go up the incline for him the way he had it set up.

 

Thanks for the replies,
CRV eventually did go up the incline with the VSA off and a push from the neighbor. Although the ice and snow in front may have settled enough to get some traction on the front wheels. So much for the "able to keep going even if only one wheel has traction" - The CRV doesn't and won't ever have fully locking differentials.

 

I work as a mechanic in CT and found that any of the newer model Cr-v with electronic 4wd dont do nearly as well with engaging the 4wd as the early hydraulic versions. Also if you have regular or even all season tires that makes a huge difference in traction in snow. I have first generation and when it had all seasons it didnt wanna steer in 2 inches of snow. All it wanted to do was go straight. Got 4 snows and there is almost no amount of snow i cant drive through...the last 3 feet though did stop me

 

I work as a mechanic in CT and found that any of the newer model Cr-v with electronic 4wd dont do nearly as well with engaging the 4wd as the early hydraulic versions...

Mine is a 2005. Any idea if it's electronic or hydraulic AWD? I did a quick Google search but didn't really see anything, and since you mentioned it I'm kind of curious.

 

I don't think that's true. My 2002 was hydraulic AWD. But I think in 2005 they changed to electronic.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

I believe the rt4wd is hydraulic, in that it is one hydraulic pump (driven by the front wheels) overcoming the pressure of the rear driven hydraulic pump, when the front starts to go faster than the rear. The amount of torque that is transferred is controlled electronically by VSA.

 

I call BS on those vids. Obviously Subaru hype. After doing a bit of research i believe the Subaru system is better, but make it a fair comparison.

They are demonstrating the Honda CRV Gen 3 4wd system. The improved AWD 4th Gen in the 2012 is a different system. Also, very supplely, the Subaru rolls onto the ramp with momentum, then climbs. The CRV started from a dead stop and failed. (not sure if this is the case in all the vids)
I have looked all over the web and cannot find a detailed description of the new AWD system provided by Honda. Honda gives it a glossing over in a few places and other sites try to explain but fall short.
Perhaps a "sticky" could be posted with a detailed explanation if one exists.
edit
Best I've found so far

 

Found this at "The Temple of VTEC". May have been copied from here.


Real Time AWD with Intelligent Control System

New for 2012, the CR-V offers Real Time AWD with Intelligent Control System™, which represents a major advancement to Honda's original Real Time 4WD system used in previous-generation models. The more compact and efficient Real Time AWD introduces a high degree of four-wheel-drive sophistication in rain, snow, dirt roads and dry pavement. System operation is completely automatic and virtually transparent in smoothness. Unlike some four-wheel-drive systems that require the driver to select a drive mode based on the perceived need, Real Time AWD's automatic operation means the system is always ready to transfer torque to the rear wheels, allowing the driver to focus more on driving when situations are demanding.

The capabilities of the system are prioritized to further support high fuel efficiency and all-around drivability on-road as well as off-road. Assisting the front wheels when it is beneficial, Real Time AWD instantly powers the rear wheels when starting from a stop, even on dry pavement, working in cooperation with Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) and the new Motion-Adaptive Electric Power Steering (EPS). For comparison, the previous-generation Real Time 4WD was designed to allow the front wheels to slip a small degree before torque was transferred to the rear wheels and its primary benefit was at low speeds. Plus, it did not interact with VSA. The new Real Time AWD system can operate at all speeds when needed. When torque transfer to the rear wheels is not required such as when cruising, drive to the rear wheels is decoupled for reduced drag.

The Intelligent Control System function of Real Time AWD cooperates with the VSA and EPS to assist the driver in maintaining vehicle control. For efficiency, the electric motor activating the hydraulic pump is idled when not required, further reducing drag within the system and helping to reduce energy consumption. Compared to the previous model's Real Time 4WD, the new Real Time AWD design weighs 17 percent less (approximately 36 pounds total system weight) and has 60 percent less rotational drag compared to the previous-generation's Real Time 4WD system.

The CR-V's all-wheel drive system's major components consist of the conventional front-wheel-drive system, a compact transfer case that distributes torque to a propeller shaft running the length of the vehicle, the rear differential, a new electronically-controlled hydraulic pump, a multi-plate clutch, and left and right rear-wheel driveshafts.

The previous-generation Real Time 4WD system was mechanically actuated using a pair of hydraulic pumps (one driven by the front wheels and one driven by the rear wheels) along with a ball cam mechanism to operate the clutch that sent power to the rear wheels. If the front wheels began to turn faster than the rear wheels, as would be the case if they were spinning on snow or ice, the difference in pressure between the two pumps would cause the clutch to be engaged, sending power to the rear wheels. The ball cam mechanism was designed to help speed engagement. The system was designed to react to front wheelspin quickly and then send a portion of the vehicle's power to the rear wheels.

The new Real Time AWD still uses a multi-plate clutch, similar to the clutches used in Honda automatic transmissions, to connect the propeller shaft to the rear differential. But in place of the twin hydraulic pumps and ball cam mechanism used previously, the system now uses an electric motor driving a single hydraulic pump, which operates the clutch. The electric motor is controlled by the Intelligent Control System, which means that the system can actively apportion power based on the conditions. The system doesn't merely react to front wheelspin; it minimizes wheelspin before it happens by sending power to the rear wheels accordingly.

When starting on snow for example, the system sends power to the rear wheels right from the start, minimizing the potential for front wheelspin. The system can also detect when the CR-V is climbing a hill and send a greater amount of power to the rear wheels in cooperation with the newly added Hill Start Assist feature. Hill Start Assist maintains brake pressure briefly after the brake pedal is released, giving the driver time to accelerate and smoothly resume motion. The Intelligent Control System instantly assesses the road's slope angle using a G-sensor and the level of grip as detected by VSA in case of wheel spin, allowing added initial apportioning of torque to the rear wheels for smooth starts.

In summary, Real Time AWD offers the optimal balance of confident capability and user friendliness in a lightweight and fuel-efficient design. The driver can simply step on the accelerator and let the system maximize use of available grip and climbing capability.

 

Coul be you drove over too deep of snow to get the bottom of the CRV stuck?

Any vehicle will be stuck if your axles are stuck, but as mentioned, removing the VSA helps, as well as winter tires.

 

I have noticed the same problem while trying to reverse in snow. I have a 1997 and it goes through anything in drive but seems to get stuck going over small snow banks in reverse. I've experienced this in many scenarios. I have to go forward and get a run at the bank to reverse over it. I have new snow tires and my neighbours Escape backs over his snow bank with no problems. This reverse issue has been a problem on many occasions in our driveway and on sandy beaches where we have to take caution to never end up in a situation where we have to reverse out. We are thinking of buying a new 2013 CRV but are also considering a RAV4 because of the 4 wheel lock option, I thought that sent even power to all four wheels but now I'm thinking its only one front and one rear. After reading this thread I now know that the CRV system automatically starts off with power to the rear wheels when beginning acceleration on flat or hill surfaces, I don't thing the RAV4 lock button would be any better. I am still very concerned about the reverse issue though. The video that is linked in this thread, not the bias subaru video the Honda AWD video, makes it look like the CRV can send power to all four wheels at once (?) but what about when it's in reverse trying to climb over an obstacle while on a slippery surface?

 

Youtube is your friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pRKMn3afvQ

Here is someone doing a parking spot in the Snow, both forward and backwards. Power is sent to the rear, but keep in mind I think all these CUV uses open differentials with traction control to help it.

The old system is :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1g4wEHldkQ
Notice how the front slides before the rear starts spinning and how the rear spins and the front takes a while to start also.


I think for the RAV4 with the lock it is 50 front 50 rear It is mostly 70 front 30 rear.. I think..
The CRV is mostly front wheel drive and based on the video it is 80 front and 20 rear..( Honda don't published figures..) It can However do 30 front and 70 rear if the system determines it needs more power to the back. It is all controlled by computer. According to some websites.
No one post the technicals for the awd system.

The ford escape with intelligence is similar to the CRV as a computer determines where to send power either to the front or rear. Don't know how much it can send to the back though. Computer only shows what traction control do. Reduce power or cut power to the front when spinning and allow power in the rear to move.

If your bored here are ford Escape and Subaru forester with all season tires in the snow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_gseK09_pU - I like how people complain about them leaving stock OEM tires on them when most people would probally do the same thing..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnpsHA4rww - same complaints using OEM instead of snow tires.

 

Thanks,

I've seen that video, it's the reason I replied to this thread. I thought that my 97 CRV was broken and that's why it wouldn't reverse, then I saw that video with the new CRV and realized that a just the way they work. It's very disappointing, I only get one wheel to spin and the new ones are the same. My neighbours Escape (and probably any other 4X4) just spins more than one wheel and climbs over stuff. I wonder how the Toyota lock compares to the CRV in reverse.

 

I live in Michigan and have a a 2013 CRV. Last winter was horrible with all the snow and ice. This car handles horribly! I have taken it in to Rivertown Honda twice but they tell me everything is operating fine.

 

As I suggested to your post in the other thread, unfortunately you will have to change tires to get the AWD performance you would expect, either a better tire than OE or dedicated snow tires.

 

Was this software update made available to usa? What's your source for his information? Thanks!

 

At least two swedish renowned magazines did the snow tests, which were interesting to me since I bought a CR-V in 2013 (second-hand, model year 2005). "We Carowners magazine" wrote 28mar2013: "Our first critisism was that the 4WD-engage was slow and diffuse, and sometimes totally absent. This was seen both in our long-test CR-V and in the CR-V we had for the comparisons with Santa Fe and Outlander. The new CR-V has an electromechanical system for rear wheel activation while the older had a hydrualic. Thanks to the new system steering, the programming of the 4WD system is straightforward to change when needed (=software updating)." Honda represenative was cited: "We had some indications late 2012 in Balticum tests that something was not optimal regarding the cooperation between the components of the 4WD system, but this was discovered too close to the launch." The re-testing, comparing two CR-V:s (with and without updated software), proved successful for the updated one, with one precaution: the cars in comparison had not exactly the same tires and tire dimensions. Bottom line was: "Honda has reacted swiftly, which is very good, and the change has made a significant difference ."

Also stated: "It is only in Scandinavia that the update will be done, at least at present." I do not know if this refered to the European market, or to the worldwide market.

http://www.vibilagare.se/nyheter/honda-crv-driver-battre-efter-uppdatering

http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil/article16423283.ab

http://www.aftonbladet.se/bil/biltester/article16200652.ab -> citation from here: "Everything is slippery in Honda's world"

Bye the way, the long-time testers also had some critisism of the new infotainment system: Verdict: "how can a total moron have been allowed to design that f-ing system? It is the very opposite of intuative user-friendliness!"

 

Try turning the traction control off if you have it (my 2003 Doesn't) because you may need more engine power than the traction control will let you use in this situation. Use the Left Foot Braking Technique. with left foot on the brake and right foot on the gas, modulate the brake pressure slowly until you feel all four wheels fighting for traction and moving the vehicle. This technique sends equal brake pressure to both left and right axles and "confuses" the open differentials to apply power to both sides. You don't need to rev the motor very high or ride your brakes very high as this will cause excess wear and tear. The key is light pedal modulation on both pedals.

 

Hey guys, just a quick question.
If I go to a mechanic and ask him to lift my CRV up, that all wheels are in the air. And then I put 1st gear in and try to drive. My front wheel start to turn, but rear not - so AWD should kick in, right ?

Maybe someone already tryed it ?

This is just to test it in a garage. If rear wheels do not turn so I have a problem right ?

Thanks for your thoughts

 

The rear wheels would turn on my 2000.

 

I have 2007 CRV.
Maybe you got a video of experiment like this ?

I would like to do it, but now - a bit scary

 

With all the snow in the northeast this past week, I should have been quite impressed with the AWD.

But the CRV was parked on a decline with the front wheels in a pile of snow. One rear wheel was on gravel, the other was on a bit of ice.
I thought I could just put it in reverse and back it up the driveway, alas... nothing but spinning one front wheel, and I was unable to back the CRV out of the driveway.

I know this might be an extreme case; (one rear wheel having traction, and on a decline, trying to go up hill in reverse)

Does the AWD system engage when it's in reverse?

Shouldn't at least the traction control, or awd system prevent it from spinning a single wheel like it was a FWD car with an open differential?

Or is there something wrong with the system?

NO NO NO !!! By design none of Honda’s AWD systems work in reverse! I am so sick of all the ASSumtions that it does!
Not since the 90’s and the true RT4WD systems has a Honda had the ability to drive the rear whells in reverse. Sadly they badged cars as RTAWD and people got fooled thinking the A was a 4 as in 4WD.

 

By design none of Honda’s AWD systems work in reverse! I am so sick of all the ASSumtions that it does!

It actually does work in reverse. Read up on it below and you'll see that it does. ?

This is straight out of my 2007-2010 CR-V Honda Service Manual, page 15-15, where operation in reverse is explained in detail.

Page 15-16:

Also page 15-16:

I'll take Honda's word on it. The hydraulic fluid flow diagrams for forward motion are slightly different due to the direction of rotation of the pumps, but the various check valves ensure the fluid ends up going to the correct place (pressing the clutch piston to engage the propeller shaft) in either direction.

It's interesting to note that each direction (forward and reverse) has three modes of operation. Acceleration/starting, driving in 2WD (no slippage), and deceleration. One difference I noticed is that during deceleration in forward mode, the AWD system will not engage. But in reverse, slippage during deceleration will make the AWD engage (and that surprised me when I first read it)...so the AWD system actually can do more functions in reverse than forward.

I'll paste in the forward motion explanations also--it's helpful to have them all in one place.

The dual pump system also has a safety mode to protect it from overheating.

 

I test drove 2010 and. 2011 and found both to only spin the front wheels when in reverse backing up hill against a minor snow drift. I was looking at other makes for a while and came across the 2005 badged as RTAWD. I thought is was RT4WD like my 90 wagon. I have gotten stuck twice since using this to do Cell Site work in New York. I have excellent snow tires mounted on all four wheels. Even with VSA off and feathering the brake, no attempt to drive the rear wheels in reverse. I now carry a tow rope and winch at all times.
I also started driving with VSA off when roads are straight and slushy since I can feel the loss of forward motion when it’s on. Wen I go to pass a truck in the slushy left lane of the thruway, the littlest wheel slip causes the system to start applying the ABS to the slipping wheel and loss of engine power.
This isn’t a “bash Honda” reply. I work with a lot of people driving only AWD SUV’s and my CRV under performs compared to several of them.